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bgraham111
10-29-2013, 07:11 PM
So - I'm going to give it a try. I'm building a Highroller.

I purchased a few trike plans a few years ago, but I never got around to building them. But I kept thinking about a recumbent. And I realized that I really wanted a 2 wheeled recumbent for my first ride. And I really liked the Bacchetta Giro-26. So - the high roller.

I'll put up pictures and notes as I go....

...and now that I posted this, I have to post updates. :)

Brian

bgraham111
10-29-2013, 07:18 PM
And I've run into my first issue / question.

I cut the front fork up for use in the rear. But I guess I'm not sure how you all make this work. He's my situation:

- 100mm spaced front fork.
- Cut out the middle 1" when you cut off the legs.
- Weld onto 1.5" square tube.
- Stick a 135mm rear wheel in there.

Well, that doesn't add up. So I assume that the forks are bent to remain parallel. Is that what everyone else is doing? Or do you have different folks?

My backup plans include:
- Bend the forks (at least the drops)
- Weld a small T-bar to the end of the main body rail, and weld the forks coming off of that. Might look a little funny.
- Punt and build a Warrior back end.
- Find another fork an try again.

So - any thoughts? I can't wait to put some pictures up soon. (right now I just have a pile of parts.)

Thanks!

Ticktock
10-29-2013, 08:28 PM
I think this is where we really need a few pics to get the idea!
Steve G,
Beijing

Racer46
10-29-2013, 09:19 PM
I went with the "punt" option but I would put the wheel in the forks, then tack weld it to the main frame. you may need to file a slight angle on the fork arms to get them to lay flush on the main tube.

go1000go
10-30-2013, 03:12 AM
Hi Brian

I am also building a highroller right now for all the same reasons.

I went with the "punt" option but I would put the wheel in the forks, then tack weld it to the main frame. you may need to file a slight angle on the fork arms to get them to lay flush on the main tube.
Racer46

And this is the way to go, just cut a slight angle so the fork ends get to the 135mm width.
But another consideration is the cassette/ freewheel clearance, I have used an 8 speed 11 to 34 teeth and at both ends of the scale there can be clearance issues. For the smallest gear 11 the hanger needs to be inboard of the fork to avoid the chain rubbing on the inner fork. I ended up cutting the hanger off then bending the fork arm out and rewelding the hanger because of this issue.
At the 34 tooth the chain needs deflecting under the fork, near to where it joins the main boom, a roller does this, I got one from terra trikes.
It all comes down to the angle of the dangle you have on your chosen fork, which without a picture it is hard to offer further advice.

Hope this helps, if you are going to post a picture, follow the "Posting Photos" link shown in the top banner and you should have no problems.

There is another consideration however, as racer46 and the aluminium highroller project are adopting ( both threads have posts within the last month) which is to make your own rear fork using the warrior style of rear end, this should help with the gear clearance issues certainly at the 11 teeth end and there is probably as much work in this compared to using an old fork, however it comes down to aesthetics and I personally have used an old fork to match the front fork

Keep asking

Regards
Tim

bgraham111
10-30-2013, 04:49 PM
Thanks for your comments everyone!

I should have started with pictures... but I have some now.


First one is a sketch of what I'm talking about.
The front fork comes with 100mm spacing at the dropouts.
When you cut and add it to the frame, the spacing becomes about 115mm, assuming you keep the dropouts parallel. Which I would think you would want to do, least you eventually destroy the wheel and hub someday.
Do fit this, you can cut the forks at an angle, and then bend the dropouts so they are parallel. Or I suppose I could weld a cross member in there.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7308/10580295734_24c7746dc5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580295734/)
forks (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580295734/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

I was wondering what other people did. I see many just use a Warrior fork (and I have the manual for that as well). Maybe some people are able to pick up front forks better suited to this bike? I dunno. I kind of like the look of the front forks, so I'd like to try them, but more importantly I'd like it not to fall apart. :)

Here it is with the bevels
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2861/10580523103_78b3e1edec.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580523103/)
017 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580523103/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

Here it is with the forks if I keep the dropouts parallel and unbent.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5549/10580280646_a2a9bc0dc1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580280646/)
019 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580280646/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

Thanks for all your help thus far. Really awesome!
Brian

go1000go
10-30-2013, 05:59 PM
Hello again Brian
Thanks for the photos.
I agree with you, that the front forks do look good.

I guess the closest explanation to your last post is the third fork from the left.
I followed the plans, and cut the two pieces of the fork where they originally were joined to the crown at an angle so when welded to the main boom gave the desired 135mm width at the end, by splaying out.

The dropouts need to be changed to hold the wheel in the right attitude and here is where I came up against a problem.
The red arrow shows the problem area, but as shown it works fine, with clearance for the chain
http://s15.postimg.org/cubc3qruj/image.jpg
The two black pen marks on the left fork is where before the mod the chain just bound up solid in this area. The end result is the forks are not splayed out by an equal amount, but having looked a number of mountain bikes, I see the same thing and even some stays vary from left to right side, so I am happy with the end result, as the wheel can drive by the chain without catching and the wheel is central to the main boom.

Hope this makes sense, if not ask again

Tim

bgraham111
10-30-2013, 10:03 PM
That sounds good - I've decided to give that a try. Worse case scenario is that it doesn't work and I try something else. Thanks for letting me talk that out.

Brian

stormbird
10-31-2013, 04:46 AM
Hi both

Raleigh made their forks parallel by putting a cross piece on them like this :-

http://oldroads.com/mn0.jpg

I think it would still look good as it could be round tube & you seem to have enough clearance for it ?

Tim is your wheel parallel to the frame ? or is the camera lying ?

regards Paul

Neil B
10-31-2013, 05:25 AM
Here it is with the forks if I keep the dropouts parallel and unbent.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5549/10580280646_a2a9bc0dc1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580280646/)
019 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10580280646/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

Brian

If you keep them parallel like in your pic, you may have problems with the brakes if you are going to use the brake bosses. You would be moving them further away from the rim, which would mean that the brake arms would have to pivot further and may foul against the tyre. On a DF the distance between the brake bosses is the same on the front and rear, Generally the rim is the same width on both the front and rear wheel, it's only the axle width that is different. May be worth checking with some brake arms and a tyre on your wheel before you make any sparks. Neil

Tradetek
10-31-2013, 09:25 AM
Something to keep in mind is that generally bicycle chainstays are not straight. The drive side is normally bent along the chainstay and sometimes the non-drive side as well.

Part of this is done in order to properly meet distance between the brake bosses (not an issue with disk, drum, or coaster brakes), in addition to making extra space for the drivetrain components on the drive side.

The following picture is a good illustration of the point:

http://www.ihpva.org/Projects/PracticalInnovations/chainstays1.gif

Bill

go1000go
11-01-2013, 03:31 AM
Paul,


Tim is your wheel parallel to the frame ? or is the camera lying ?

It was parallel when I tacked it, it was parallel 3 times during the fixing/welding grinding process, it is not now following more welding grinding and making it look pretty.
It appears all of this now needs to be redone AGAIN!

Good call Paul, thanks for seeing what I had not, just got the hassle of sorting it now.

I still cannot believe this has happened, on what I perceived to be a simple fast build, oh well, too much heat build up and not looking out for it, ultimately my error.

Tim

Racer46
11-01-2013, 01:48 PM
Tim,
That wheel does not appear to be dished correctly. Take a pair of something, bricks, books, anything that will allow you to lay the wheel on them with the cluster facing down on a flat surface. Measure the distance from the mounting face of the axle, the part that will touch the inside of the drop out, to the flat surface. Then turn the wheel over and measure from the other mounting face to the to your flat surface. These measurements should be the same! That being said, I have seen wheels where the dish is different but the bikes they came off of have chain stays that look like the ones Bill posted. It keeps the tension on both sides of the wheel equal.

go1000go
11-01-2013, 03:04 PM
First things first, apologies Brian for high jacking your post, but I have found something that is relevant to your build.
So thanks Paul, just spent last hour or so correcting the fault resulting in this
http://s8.postimg.org/g4b16a6dx/image.jpg
The straight edge clamped should now put all fears to rest, including my own.

Now Brian, the relevant bit for you build, I found I had not got as good a weld as it could be where the forks meet the main boom and it was relatively easy to bend the forks. .
http://s21.postimg.org/6cohc37nb/image.jpg
Having fully welded this it did as I assumed and changed the attitude of the wheel position. This was fine because I did this weld before cutting and repositioning the hanger back in its rightful place.

Finally the rolling unit now looks like this, http://s10.postimg.org/bs9abjtm1/image.jpg
again Brain where I got involved in your post and I still like the look of these forks.

Apologies again.

Tim

bgraham111
11-01-2013, 05:46 PM
Oh - hijack away folks. I'm learning from all of this. It's great to see all the pictures.

My plan is to weld the forks on this weekend, and I'll get pictures up soon. I hope. Halloween kind of got in the way. Unfortunately, the main donor frame has been delayed. The guy I got it from shipped it to the wrong place, so we are getting that straightened out.

And Tim - I'm clamping metal to the frame to do alignment just like you showed. Good to see I'm headed in the right direction.

Brian

stormbird
11-01-2013, 06:13 PM
Tim

Neat trick , you can see the end of the boom shows different amounts of heat between left and right side.

Now go on and admit it .......
I bet you have sat on it and pushed yourself about on it ...:jester:

regards Paul

go1000go
11-02-2013, 03:28 AM
Now go on and admit it .......
I bet you have sat on it and pushed yourself about on it ..




Maybe, or maybe one of the kids pushed me. :joker:

bgraham111
11-03-2013, 05:38 PM
So, all my worry over the forks was not really needed. I put the dropouts into a vice, and ever so lightly pushed on them. They were totally lined up after that. Was easier than I expected. No more freaking out. Besides, I expect some more "bending" will be needed in the future.

OK, I got a chance to do some more welding today. I'm using a wire feed MIG welder with flux core wire - no gas. That means I have ugly welds. Also, my total lack of skill when it comes to welding. I've practiced on scrap as much as I can and I've built a few other things over the years like a material rack and a few table frames. But I'm still a pretty poor welder.

The forks did draw in a bit after welding. I just kind of pushed on them and they went back into place. I was able to stand on the frame, and bounce up and down a little, so I suppose the welding is still good. I just don't want this joint to fail. I've even considered welding a little gusset on this joint to make be feel better.

I did get the tubes and tires mounted onto the wheels. Still waiting for the other frame parts. I suppose I could start on the seat. Not sure if I want to do the stock seat, or make up my own seat. There's a lot of cool seats out there.

Anyway - enough excuses. On to the PICTURES!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7386/10655653285_46660a4baf.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655653285/)
001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655653285/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7389/10655881653_472dbc83e5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655881653/)
004 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655881653/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3789/10655670654_2e900be205.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655670654/)
008 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655670654/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3689/10655636755_b5e1beecac.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655636755/)
010 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655636755/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7435/10655662564_0b9bf6f800.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655662564/)
012 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655662564/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7424/10655630175_0253d62040.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655630175/)
013 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655630175/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7458/10655623355_50f8354528.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655623355/)
016 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10655623355/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

go1000go
11-03-2013, 05:48 PM
Looks like a very good start indeed.

When you come to cut the boom in front of the forks make sure you leave plenty of extra, I am 6 foot tall and I was surprised how far out in front the crank is.

Flash looking rims you are using, very smart

Tim

go1000go
11-03-2013, 05:51 PM
Just looking at your photos again, have a look at the one I listed in #7

My suggestion to you is to put a chain to the smallest gear now, I think you might have some interference with the fork, based on my own build.

Tim

bgraham111
11-04-2013, 06:25 PM
Good point about the chain on the smallest cog. The wheel isn't going to get installed on those drops - I'm going to weld the ones from the frame onto the front forks, and I'm going to put them on the inside. But now I'm concerned that there still isn't enough room. I might have to make some adjustments one I get the frame and see how those read drops look. (Of course, adding the rear drops means I'll probably have to relocate the brake bosses.... ugh....) It's all good.


The wheels - I got them from nasbar.com. They were the cheapest set of 26" wheels they had. But they are still the most expensive part of the bike. By far. I got a frame, but that frame didn't come with much on it. So I had to collect up parts from all over. The wheels just caused me so much trouble. I could have gotten much cheaper wheels, but I decided to spend a little extra on the wheels. Plus they are white! How cool is that?!

Brian "waiting for the frame and looking at seats"

go1000go
11-04-2013, 06:36 PM
Hi Brian,
Money well spent on the wheels.
You appear to have it worked out, given you have the plans, with respect to the dropouts.
My build to a casual observer will look the same now as it did about 12 hours build time ago, but as you say all good fun.

Tim

stormbird
11-04-2013, 11:09 PM
Brian "waiting for the frame and looking at seats"

Hi there

If you look here :-

http://archive.org/search.php?query=edgar%20k.%20atkins

The AtomBlaster bike plans include a great seat, it has a mesh back and a foam base this means :-

mesh back stops sweaty back
is easier to make than full tube mesh seat
can be build without a tube bender , just make 45' degree cuts and weld joints
hinged so optimum back to seat angle can be found AFTER bike is built so you don't have to guess whilst building

regards Paul

bgraham111
11-05-2013, 10:53 PM
Yeah - I think I'm going to go with a variation of this seat:
https://sites.google.com/site/recycledrecumbents/seat-frame-construction

Lucky for me - I have a tube bender that I think will work. I'm at least going to give it a try.

TexasTuff
11-06-2013, 01:02 AM
Yeah - I think I'm going to go with a variation of this seat:
https://sites.google.com/site/recycledrecumbents/seat-frame-construction

Lucky for me - I have a tube bender that I think will work. I'm at least going to give it a try.

I been using one of these seats on my trike for over a year now and it is the most comfortable seat I've used in a more or less upright position. I have tried it on a couple of bikes with a more reclined position and find it not to work so well. I like this seat in a reclined position. https://archive.org/details/AnatomicSeatRecumbentBikeSeatPlans

I don't update my blog any longer but you can find links to many different seat builds on this page including many that link back to AZ users. http://texasrecumbents.wordpress.com/recumbent-seats/

bgraham111
11-06-2013, 06:10 PM
Hey Texas - you aren't the first person who mentioned that I may want to not use that seat for a more reclined bike. I think I better listen to those who have gone before me. Thanks!

Now I'm looking at the nice wood seats. I like that An-atomic seat. Of course what I'm really doing is wasting time, clicking on the tracking number on the donor frame. It's in the mail!

stormbird
11-07-2013, 04:09 AM
The beauty of the mesh seat back is that you do not sweat when sat in it , all the hard back seats will cause more or less back sweating depending on :-

type of cover you use
ambient temperature
clothing worn
amount of work you are doing

To alleviate this they developed the Ventisit seat pad , they can be home made if you can get the materials or bought but they are costly.

https://www.google.co.uk/#psj=1&q=ventisit+seat+pad

All seats need some recline otherwise you will get recumbent butt.

Texas what problems did you find with it ? I suspect there is to much seat in front of your butt and it interferes with getting your feet down ?

regards Paul

TexasTuff
11-07-2013, 09:42 AM
Texas what problems did you find with it ? I suspect there is to much seat in front of your butt and it interferes with getting your feet down ?

regards Paul

I find the placement of the BB in relation to the seat is the determining factor as to the seat style I like to use on my bikes/trike. On my trike and same as on a TE clone like on Andrew's site, the BB is lower than the seat and the seat not as reclined as on bikes with higher BB placement like the high-roller like bgraham111 is building.

On my Spirit, with a higher than seat BB placement, I found the mesh seat too wide and the seat pan too long. I found it uncomfortable to get my legs over the seat rails and feet on the ground whereas the wood seat is much more narrow and easier to get my feet down. In a reclined position like would be on a high-roller the mesh seat pan hit the back of my legs. I've cut the wood seat as narrow as 9" and still found it comfortable although I think 11" was maybe a stronger seat and in a reclined position could make the pan as short as needed.

Same token, I found myself always sliding down in the wooden seat when on a bike/trike with a low BB placement like would be found on a TE clone, Wildkat or some of the Delta trikes.

I do think a mesh seat back could be attached to a seat pan that is short and narrow somewhat like a Rans seat but with a smaller pan.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't suffer from recumbutt, at least not yet.

go1000go
11-07-2013, 04:45 PM
How about about one one these
http://s2.postimg.org/a9u8xxosp/image.jpg

Skyways recumbent

Ventist seat pad as Paul mentioned

imamedik
11-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Tim, do you have any other pics of that seat?

FrankCrank
11-07-2013, 08:38 PM
....wow - gotta lay my hands on some of that 3D mesh, looks the ticket for a comfy, breathable seat.......

TexasTuff
11-07-2013, 10:32 PM
Tim, do you have any other pics of that seat?

Medik, Tim may have a better link but I had this one in my database. http://recliforum.forumeiros.com/t180-banco-de-aluminio
Looks very adjustable, doesn't it.

George

FrankCrank
11-07-2013, 10:46 PM
....now that's recumbent porn - I want one!

Dear Santa................

go1000go
11-08-2013, 03:28 AM
Hi folks

This should resolve things
http://www.slywayprojects.com/prodotti.aspx or http://www.slywayprojects.com/prodotti.aspx

I am with franks opinion!

I bought my ventist pad for 60 and the seat was a further 60 from ocean cycles, I think that it is ocean who supply these pads. Their website is not the best, via ebay here is another of theirs
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Recumbent-bike-seat-from-Ocean-Cycle-carbon-/321243223913?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item4acb969769

go1000go
11-09-2013, 04:22 AM
Check out this build, this is one well used machine.

The seat he uses is the same I have

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=94844

FrankCrank
11-09-2013, 05:45 AM
...hey Tim, excellent read on that thread, thanks for the link. He built that thing super light by the looks of it, and was very brave to go off on a major tour fully laden with travel gear. Shame about the frame cracking, but he was sailing close to the wind. I may have a go at building something like it in the future, and it's becoming obvious now that the fork join at the rear is the potential Achilles heel. Not sure how I would tackle it right now, not in cold blood, needs that hands on build experience to get a real feel for what might be required to bolster the join. Anyhow, again, thanks for the heads-up.....

TexasTuff
11-09-2013, 08:49 AM
Hey Tim, didn't that seat used to be a lot less expensive. Seems like I remember a year or so ago it was only about $110. Now that e-bay price is about $240. Maybe my memory is not right anymore.

George

go1000go
11-09-2013, 10:53 AM
...hey Tim, excellent read on that thread, thanks for the link. He built that thing super light by the looks of it, and was very brave to go off on a major tour fully laden with travel gear. Shame about the frame cracking, but he was sailing close to the wind. I may have a go at building something like it in the future, and it's becoming obvious now that the fork join at the rear is the potential Achilles heel. Not sure how I would tackle it right now, not in cold blood, needs that hands on build experience to get a real feel for what might be required to bolster the join. Anyhow, again, thanks for the heads-up.....

Frank, yes a most excellent read.
Do not want to spoil the reveal, but I have revised my highroller build, and overnight sleep has revealed what I need to do next to overcome this Achilles heel.

go1000go
11-09-2013, 10:56 AM
Hey Tim, didn't that seat used to be a lot less expensive. Seems like I remember a year or so ago it was only about $110. Now that e-bay price is about $240. Maybe my memory is not right anymore.

George

This is the carbon fibre version, the fibreglass one is about half this price, I paid 65 for a fibreglass one

bgraham111
11-10-2013, 04:32 PM
OK - since I've been waiting for the rest of the frame to show up, I started playing around with making my own seat.

I've never bent wood before, so it's been a learning process for me thus far. It's actually been pretty educational, so I'm glad I tried to make my own seat. I'm pretty comfortable with metalwork (welding is one of my metal weaknesses). But woodwork... whoa... that's hard. But I really like the look of the wood seats. Plus, I have done some laminated wood stuff before (but it was a small wooden butcher block table to go next to the grill) and I really liked how it turned out.

So I followed the An-Atomic-al seat instructions from above.
Built a frame. That wasn't too bad.

In my first attempt I used clamps. I started at one end instead of the middle, and probably didn't soak the wood long enough. Anyway - I cracked the wood. Plus using the clamps was an absolute nightmare. I quickly realized that this was going to become a "learning" experience. Here are pictures from the first failure:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5543/10784491005_f893bc5a18.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784491005/)
001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784491005/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3684/10784514676_2021357f88.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784514676/)
003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784514676/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

OK - I can learn.
First improvement - soak the wood longer. Soaked in bathtub for 5 hours.
Second improvement - Used bolts, washers and nuts to clamp down on the wood. These bolts are the way to go. You can slowly tighten the wood bars down. You don't have to fight with the clamps trying to fall off. You can do everything slower and more controlled. It's really much better.

However - I think I realized another improvement for the next version. The wood block cross members that I use to hold the plywood down are flat. Flat with sharp corners. I should have shaped them a little bit on the sander. Because I didn't, the sharp edge digs into the plywood and provides a stress point in the bending of the plywood. Makes it more likely to crack. And I say that because I'm pretty sure I cracked this one as well. I can't see a crack, but I heard it. And I'm going to place the blame on the sharp wood edges. I'm going to let it dry anyway, and see if there is anything else I can learn. But I'm definitely going to shape the wood cross bars.

Here's take two:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/10784608634_ece3bee6c8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784608634/)
007 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784608634/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5483/10784744623_7afa6864be.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784744623/)
005 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10784744623/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

I'll let you all know how take 3 goes. By the end of this, I should be ready to mass produce wooden seats.

stormbird
11-11-2013, 04:53 AM
Hi there

I built the mould and have made several seats , there are a few notes to help.


I use the cheapest plywood available which in the USA may be called Luan ? it is not really [ in my eyes ] a plywood as it is a rubbish core with two very thin veneers on it. A 2 x 4 foot sheet [ 3mm thickish ] will make one seat so about 4 in UK money.


I don't do his full seat anything after the straight bit on the right is not really needed makes it much harder to bend also to get it in the kids paddling pool [ see below ] it needs to be shorter than his seat.


I have found the wood needs to be soaked for at least 2 or 3 days , hot water may help but I am a cheapskate and used cold ! I left a test piece in well over a week and it shows no signs of de-laminating however it will split a little on the outside before being bent.


Also 2 pieces of 3mm are ok if you have the strengthening ribs I put on mine , so I cut the sheet into 2 pieces 33" long & 10" wide and cut the remaining bits into 4 pieces 1" wide and 33" long.


Soak the seat bits & ribs for a couple of days , fasten both seat bits to the form and allow them to dry for a couple more days then separate them and glue together and put them back on the form to dry.

http://s20.postimg.org/3x4tdspcd/DSCF1438sm.jpg


Then I cover them with polythene and clamp the ribs on the top and allow them to dry , they then get glued together and eventually glued to the seat.

http://s20.postimg.org/yfulyrej1/DSCF1439_sm.jpg


Does not take to long mainly you are waiting for stuff to dry , a lot of the other wooden seats I have seen made they are trying to bend 6mm and saying it can't be bent or that their seat ended up to heavy to use after laminating 2 or 3 layers of 6mm !

Nice touch is to cut a hand hold in the seat top to help with manoeuvring the rear of the bike.

http://s20.postimg.org/f36qxylhp/DSCF1561_sm.jpg

regards Paul

go1000go
11-11-2013, 03:34 PM
How is this for an idea, to create one of those gorgeous seats in #29 in aluminium

Use this http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-Recumbent-Trike-Seat/ for the pattern for the ribs, leaving a 3/4 inch extra on the inner edge, cut where the bends are, then fold back at 90 degrees the extra to create a tab for the seat pan to fix to using rivets, glue or even weld ( it is aluminium, not many of us can weld it)

For bending the seat pan check out spinners video
http://youtu.be/JPbgyo6Ltz4

Drill out all the holes you want and there you have it, oh maybe separate the top shoulder bit to make it adjustable, probably make it easier to form. Then paint, but only ever orange otherwise it does not look gorgeous!!!

Oh just for fun also watch spinners electric trike
http://youtu.be/jA7GMF5ucxU

bgraham111
11-12-2013, 08:32 PM
I use the cheapest plywood available which in the USA may be called Luan ? it is not really [ in my eyes ] a plywood as it is a rubbish core with two very thin veneers on it. A 2 x 4 foot sheet [ 3mm thickish ] will make one seat so about 4 in UK money.

Of course - I should have thought of that. I'm going to look for some of the 1/8 inch stuff (~3mm). We have Luan here - and it is pretty crappy. But I could see it working. I also noticed some thin bamboo sheet - that might be interesting to try. This seat stuff is pretty cool - I can see me ending up with a few seats by the end of this.... weird how a project can take you in weird ways.

But - I got my frame! So the seat experimentation might slow down.
The frame is really nice - now I feel bad cutting it up. But it's not my size... and it will be much happier as a high roller.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7402/10828892583_7b126d43dd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10828892583/)
001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10828892583/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5472/10828618806_31b1991458.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10828618806/)
004 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34472006@N00/10828618806/) by bgraham111 (http://www.flickr.com/people/34472006@N00/), on Flickr

No progress tomorrow. We have an annual 10 mile bike ride through a bunch of Christmas lights. It's a huge drive-through Christmas light display, and the night before they open it for cars, they let bikers go through. Should be about 27 degrees F (-3C) tomorrow for the ride. FANTASTIC!

Thanks for all the input!

Tradetek
11-12-2013, 09:26 PM
What welding process are you planning to use? I ask because I'm pretty sure that frame is 4130 Chrome-moly and is likely to be very thin wall.

Bill

bgraham111
11-14-2013, 10:54 PM
Yeah - I'm starting to get a little concerned about that. I have a MIG welding set-up. I also have some access (not all the time) to some oxy-acetylene if need be. People say... "you can't weld that - don't even try" and then other people say "we MIG weld chromoly all the time". I figure I'll practice on some scrap chunks and see how it goes. It's really hard to find non-chromoly steel around here it seems. I did find a non-chromoly bottom bracket I can use, but I'm not that worried about the bottom bracket.

I guess we'll see how bad I screw up... :)

Tradetek
11-14-2013, 11:54 PM
Honestly, I have heard enough about different processes with 4130 that I think you could use just about anything and be successful if you know what you are doing. The main issue as I can see it is that 4130 frames are a lot thinner walled material than dept store steel bikes. This makes it harder to weld thick to thin, and welding dissimilar metals takes different rods than normal seems to be pretty consistent with all the pros I see/communicate with. The issue seems to be that the different types of steel flow differently when forming a puddle and because of that different filler materials seem to be better than others when mixing them because of more generic properties. That being said I personally don't get why using ER70S-2 with mild steel and ER70S-2 using 4130 wouldn't work when using both mild steel and 4130 together? :confused:

But like most people around here, I'm learning as I go and am trying to keep things as simple as possible. That being said, I jumped in with both feet and got a TIG inverter because the cleanliness of it suits my personality more than the mess of MIG/Flux Core/Stick, so the whole 4130 question is not really a big deal for me once I can actually master thin material... I have been using recycled frames from dept store bikes that I got using freecycle.org for little projects around the garage. Mostly things that help me with issues related to back problems that have me on the long term disabled list since the beginning of the year. The big thing that I have learned is that welding materials of different thicknesses really is a pain, and you really do have to pay more attention to where you are focusing your heat.

The biggest thing to do is chop and practice. Worst case scenario is that the 4130 just gets cut into bits and the bits get welded together and you get a lot of practice and learning in before you start your actual build.

Bill

trikeman
11-15-2013, 12:05 AM
Or, you could avoid the whole issue by just putting a Spirit back end on the High Roller and only using that frames front fork. The few ounces (if any) you save by fiddling around trying to splice those rear chain stays and other bits on may not be worth it.

stormbird
11-15-2013, 03:10 AM
Hi there

Something I do when faced with thin tubes is to get a small piece say 1" long clean it well slit it and insert it into the joint area , this can be done before a fish mouth is cut , so that the tubing at the weld area is twice the thickness.

This helps if you are welding a tube to the BB or head tube as it evens up the thickness a little and allows you to weld with more confidence as it is a little harder to blow holes in it [ well it is with TIG :joker: ] , in effect you create your own butted tubing !

I sometimes drill a 3mm hole in the outer and plug weld the reinforcement into position first , especially if the joint is hard to set up as this gives it some stability.

This can also be done with square tubing it just takes a bit longer as you have to make 2 slits down the corners and grind it until it fits inside the outer , this then gets 2 plug welds to hold the halves in position.

regards Paul

go1000go
11-15-2013, 03:26 AM
Or, you could avoid the whole issue by just putting a Spirit back end on the High Roller and only using that frames front fork. The few ounces (if any) you save by fiddling around trying to splice those rear chain stays and other bits on may not be worth it.

Trikeman, you make a great point here.

Just changed my highroller rear end to spirit type due to concerns of the strength of the joint and the fact that rear wheel alignment went badly out following a test ride.

I like the look of the spirit back end, but liked the higher roller I was creating more, but could not get the confidence in the joint, perhaps I was asking too much, but too many modifications and grinding of the joint, brought about the need for the change.

Good suggestion Trikeman.

bgraham111
11-15-2013, 07:21 AM
Well, I'm going to do some testing and practicing this weekend... but I have a backup plan! I've figured out a way to get the bottom bracket, head tube, rear dropouts, etc... without taking them from a donor frame. We'll see how it goes. (OK, I'm not THAT clever.... I just know that AZ sells pretty thick walled stuff.)

Trying to weight the costs of extra parts with my concerns over my welding skills. And wondering why do I want to make the welding harder than I need to make it.

Oddly, I got the rear end already done, and although it makes me nervous to think that I welded it, it seems to hold up to me standing and bouncing on it. (Which I realize is a poor test of weld strength...) I still might reinforce it with some brackets and whatnot.

trikeman
11-15-2013, 09:30 AM
Oddly, I got the rear end already done, and although it makes me nervous to think that I welded it, it seems to hold up to me standing and bouncing on it. (Which I realize is a poor test of weld strength...) I still might reinforce it with some brackets and whatnot.

I'd say you are pretty much done with the hard part then. If you can stand on it and it looks OK, I'd ride it (not a recommendation, just me). The nice thing about steel (as opposed to Al) is that it usually gives you some warning before it fails completely. I'd just ride it under 10 or 12 mph and keep an eye on it for a few hundred miles. Inspect the welds for cracks periodically.

If you take a picture or two of the welds in question, the members here will always give you their opinion. Don't worry we have all posted some pretty ugly welds.