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View Full Version : JB-Weld Filled Hubs?



rsisson
06-19-2008, 09:43 PM
The hubs are a sticking point with me, ESPECIALLY after the problem I just had get my axle out of the pillow blocks...

I was thinking about taking my Wheels, Hubs intact, and filling the Hubs with JB-Weld (after remiving bearings, grease and cleaning them) and then drilling a 3/4" WHole and putting in two pins at right angles.

This would make the wheel Removable... remove the two bolts and you could remove the wheel.

Could probably do the same thing with a custom hub, use a 3/4" ID tube and then weld the drilled washers to it...

Something about trying to change/fix a flat, or deal with a bent rim and the custom hub welded to a cantankerous axle stuck in the pillow blocks has worried me...

Anyone ever tried something like that?

Bob

SirJoey
06-19-2008, 10:41 PM
Have you checked out Richie Rich's removable wheel option? Very kool! May be just what you're looking for.

www.trikebuilder.blogspot.com (http://www.trikebuilder.blogspot.com)

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

TheKid
06-20-2008, 12:33 AM
He used 5/8" axles as per the DW plan. He did use steel hubs, and replaced the hub tubes with 1/2" steel pipe. Depending on the manfacturer of black pipe, the ID is anywhere from slightly more than 9/16" to slightly more than 5/8". There are some commercially available trikes that use the same system. I'm not sure of the axle size, but I'm looking into it. If they use 5/8" or 3/4", there may be a source for ready made wheels.

Richie Rich
06-20-2008, 12:37 AM
Hi, papa....

The axle is 5/8" from Home Depot.
The hubs are made from 36-spoke steel hubs (front or rear will both work).

I start with the type of hubs which are made from 3 pieces: two flanges connected with a tube. I separate the pieces, discard the connecting tube and weld in a 2 1/2" piece of thick-wall pipe with a 5/8" I.D.

A 1/4" hole is drilled in the center of the pipe and in the axle. A hardened Grade 5 bolt holds everything together.

Here's a closeup...

http://tinyurl.com/5h8top

If you can't find the 3-piece hubs, you can still use this method by making your own flanges.

I hope this helps...Best of luck.....

.......Richie Rich >>

rsisson
06-20-2008, 12:47 AM
Hummm Looks close to what I was planning...My Aluminum hubs have steel inserts. I was going to re-enforce them with JBW and then drill TWO bolt holes at 90deg. I was going to try it without de-lacing the wheels...a BIG advantage.

having to Delace and then rebuild the wheels lessens the likelyhood they will get finished.

TheKid
06-20-2008, 12:58 AM
Here's a link for the ready made wheels. They use a 3/16" x 1 1/4" roll pin. The 20" wheels are part # 12005, 26" wheels are part# 12022 roll pin is 12244. These are for 5/8" axles.

http://www.industrialbicycles.com/Trailmate%20small%20parts.htm

rsisson
06-20-2008, 07:10 AM
Anyone have any idea if 5/8"ths would be strong "enough" for the Kyoto vs. the regular 3/4"s ?

One thing I did notice on a few of the pictures is that they were using lighter pillow blocks. The 3/4" Blocks in Cast Iron weigh a TON vs. the same ones with a stamped Sheet-metal carrier....

SirJoey
06-20-2008, 07:56 AM
You can get those stamped steel pillow blocks in 3/4" as well, & believe it or not, they're about a buck apiece cheaper! That's ONE of the reasons I built the DW with 3/4" axles, instead of the 5/8" ones that the plans called for.

The other reason was that I already knew I was gonna build both, the DW & KC, and prolly the Gladiator as well, so I standardized all 3 builds to 3/4", & ordered 12 pillow blocks at once, saved on shipping & basically simplified everything. Also, only 1 length of 3/4" rod was needed for all 3, so I saved by not having to buy a piece of 5/8" rod as well!

Something to keep in mind, if you think there's any chance of building more projects with axles & pillow blocks later...

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

TheKid
06-20-2008, 01:45 PM
So you'd need 20mm ID tubes. (.785" = 19.939mm) You could probably use the 20mm thru-axle hubs.

rsisson
06-26-2008, 04:25 PM
I checked with the Trike Manufacture that the Kid posted the parts list for...

According to them, their Axles are Keyed... not through bolted or pinned...

TheKid
06-26-2008, 09:22 PM
Notice in the first diagram, under the baskets, there are the axles, #5 and #9, and roll pins, #10. The roll pins hold the wheel to the axle.
The second diagram is for a different trike. Again, part #10 is the roll pin

http://www.trailmate.com/files/desotoclassicmanual.pdf

http://www.trailmate.com/files/joyriderAndJrManual.pdf

locolarry
06-26-2008, 09:29 PM
Joey- Please re-tell where you ordered your pillow blocks and axles from.
Thanks, Larry

SirJoey
06-26-2008, 10:00 PM
Joey- Please re-tell where you ordered your pillow blocks and axles from.
Thanks, Larry

Here's the link for the bearings: http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-65/3-fdsh-4%22-Pressed-Steel-Pillow/Detail

I bought the axle rod locally. Hope this helps.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

locolarry
06-26-2008, 10:37 PM
Sir Joey,
Many thanks! I just placed my order.
Larry:)

gbbwolf
06-26-2008, 10:48 PM
The ones I got were this.
http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-6/3-fdsh-4%22-Pillow-Block-Bearing/Detail

No wonder mine did not look like brads.

I was trying to figure out how he got them back in the holders.'
Because on mine its a solid piece.
And in order to install the bearings you have to turn the bearing sideways,and slide it in the notch.

Those are a lot easier lol.

But 1 thing with the ones I got is that you aint got to move em to one side or the other cause it takes up the whole 1.5 inches just to mount them lol.

Dont think mine will ever wear out.
And mine will also move on a swivel so getting axles in and out was too easy.

Only drawback is if you weld all your brake parts and hub adapter you will have to unbolt the whole thing from the frame.

Also got my rod ends from there I recommend getting the 3/8th's ones.
The 1/4" ones are too small IMHO.

Nelson

TheKid
06-26-2008, 11:57 PM
Hey Joey, that's not a bad idea using 3/4" pressed steel bearings. I have 5/8" on my hauler, which I bought a couple of years ago when I was going to build the DW. I also have 5/8" cast bearings, which I bought by mistake. I decided not to use them because they weigh 3 lbs. each. Trikeman found another supplier:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008062623030959&item=1-1643-A&catname=

And a 3/4" keyed shaft:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=6368706&PMT4NO=45249109

and the bar stock for the keyway:(There's only 1 pc. even though the description says 10 pcs. It's a foot long for 95 cents.)

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=3487408&PMT4NO=45249401


As for rod ends, 3/8" is generally considered minimum. I've never seen 1/4" suggested, but I have seen 5/16" suggested many times. Some will tell you you need 1/2". If you use 3/8" fit into hollow tube, that's plenty strong, and a little lighter than using a solid 3/8" rod.

Sparky
06-27-2008, 12:31 AM
i saw those pressed steel ones, i was scared to get them cause they look cheap. and i want my bearings to last a LONG time. so i ended up with the heavy expensive cast ones. same as gbbwolf, i believe.

was i wrong? i could handle taking 8 pounds off the rear of my quad.

gbbwolf
06-27-2008, 12:37 AM
Mine aint pressed steal mine are cast weight 4 or 5 pounds each LMAO

They aint going anywhere lol.

Really like that keyed shaft.

Next Time maybe, saved those links nice prices too.

Price difference at bearing store was less than 1 buck so I went with the heavier duty ones.

Not worried about weight of bike here worried about my WEIGHT on the bike. LMFAO

Nelson

TheKid
06-27-2008, 12:47 AM
The plans for the DW used 5/8" pressed steel bearings, and there are a lot of DW's with those bearings out there. To my knowledge, there've been no complaints. The KC and Streetfighter on the other hand, called for a 3/4" axle with cast bearings, because Brad felt they would perform better if an electric motor was added.

gbbwolf
06-27-2008, 01:03 AM
I used the 3/4 axles and bearing cause my weight is 355 pounds and im 6ft7.

Brad suggested I up the axle to 3/4 and go with 1.5 inch 14 guage tube.

This thing is rock solid.

I dont think it is going anywhere.

May go a little slower but then I built it cause I can't ride a wedgie.

Not because I wanted to rocket down the street.

Nelson

TheKid
06-27-2008, 01:19 AM
At that size, I'd up the specs too. It will still go plenty fast, it'll just take a little longer getting there compared to a lighter trike.

I posted earlier in this thread that Trailmate has trikes that use RR's method for replaceable wheels. someone said they weren't there, and that they use a keyway with no pins. Actually, there are several models of their trikes, some use a roll pin similar to RR's, and some have a solid axle, with the drive side held on with a keyway and secured with a 5/8" nut. The idle side has bearings and is held on with a cotter pin at the end of the axle. The 20" version of their hauler uses the latter method. Since I have a keyed shaft, I think I'll try that out, and go back to the plan on screwing on the spinners.
For those who think wheelbuilding is too difficult, or too much work, if you go to the Trailmate site, the have a tab for dealers. If you email one of them, I'm sure you'd be able to order ready made wheels for a 5/8" axle. If you ask them maybe they'll tell you if you could bore them out to 3/4". They do make a trike with 24" wheels and 3/4" axles, so that may not be a problem.

SirJoey
06-27-2008, 10:48 AM
Do any of you guys' rod ends rattle? Mine do on the Deltoyd (DW), & it's pretty annoying. Makes the trike seem junky. Sometimes, while coasting, I'll rest my left leg against the remote steering rod, just to keep 'em quiet. :rolleyes:

I used 3/8, but maybe mine are just cheap, crappy ones. If that's the case, even though I've already bought 'em for the KC as well, I may invest a bit more in some better quality ones before I get to that point, especially considering the fact that the KC requires 4 of 'em!

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

SirJoey
06-27-2008, 10:54 AM
i saw those pressed steel ones, i was scared to get them cause they look cheap. and i want my bearings to last a LONG time. so i ended up with the heavy expensive cast ones. same as gbbwolf, i believe.was i wrong? i could handle taking 8 pounds off the rear of my quad.

Yep, that was a mistake, Sparky. Believe me, even though they're comparatively "light duty", they're PLENTY beefy enough for OUR applications. They mean "light duty" in machine power applications. Those things will last longer than YOU will, LOL!

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

TheKid
06-27-2008, 12:27 PM
The only rod ends I used that rattled were the cheap pressed steel type that came with the rod as a set. Since then, I've been using the heavy type casing. Some are a little looser than others, but they don't rattle. I noticed in some of the plans that Brad uses ends with a grease fitting. Maybe that type is best, but I haven't seen them anywhere.

n9viw
06-27-2008, 01:30 PM
I bought a pair of 1/4" rod ends to use for a shift rod on my '76 Honda CB550. They rattled like you describe, so I checked it out. The rod ends were wobbling on the balls, causing the rod to bobble and make noise. I flipped the bolt around so the nut was next to the rod end, and the shaft of the bolt stuck out. I added another nut and washer to the bokt, and used the added washer to retain a coil spring that fit over the nut that retained the rod end. The spring pressed against the body of the rod end, keeping it from wobbling around, and the noise was lessened considerably.

SirJoey
06-27-2008, 02:47 PM
I bought a pair of 1/4" rod ends to use for a shift rod on my '76 Honda CB550. They rattled like you describe, so I checked it out. The rod ends were wobbling on the balls, causing the rod to bobble and make noise. I flipped the bolt around so the nut was next to the rod end, and the shaft of the bolt stuck out. I added another nut and washer to the bokt, and used the added washer to retain a coil spring that fit over the nut that retained the rod end. The spring pressed against the body of the rod end, keeping it from wobbling around, and the noise was lessened considerably.

That's not bad, Nick, but I think I'm just gonna bite the bullet. Looks like McMaster is gonna be gettin' some more of my hard earned bux in the near future! :(

Since I'll need 4 more for the KC, & 2 more for the DW, I think I'll just go ahead & order a dozen.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

SirJoey
06-27-2008, 03:46 PM
Just priced 'em at McMaster...

For $15.76 each, I think I can live with the rattles! :eek:

If memory serves, my cheapo, rattley, pressed-steel ones were about 5 bux each. Maybe I'll try your spring-fix, Nick. That is, if the springs are less than 100 bux apiece! :rolleyes:

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

TheKid
06-27-2008, 09:12 PM
Here are some links for ball joints and tie rod ends:

http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/10-2210.html?id=HXvy8cJC

http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/10-2214.html?id=HXvy8cJC

These are the ones on my Streetfox. ( Deluxe female) They don't rattle at all:

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/gokaz_tierods.cfm#Female%20Rod%20Ends

SirJoey
06-27-2008, 09:32 PM
These are the ones on my Streetfox. ( Deluxe female) They don't rattle at all:
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/gokaz_tierods.cfm#Female%20Rod%20Ends

Kool, thanx. How's their shipping fees?

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

TheKid
06-27-2008, 09:59 PM
I don't remember, but they were fast. I ordered a few left and right ends last summer, and I threaded my own rod. If you don't have the dies, I think they sell a rod with left and right threads, as well as the left hand jam nuts. If the rod is too long or short, you can cut and weld them into 3/8" ID tube, or 1/2" square tube. I like that method, because to make adjustments, all you have to do is loosen the jam nuts and turn the shaft. There's no need to disconnect the tie rod ends from the arm.

SirJoey
06-27-2008, 10:10 PM
...I like that method, because to make adjustments, all you have to do is loosen the jam nuts and turn the shaft. There's no need to disconnect the tie rod ends from the arm.

Yea, I do to. On the DW, I just cut the threaded part off of some bolts & welded 'em on to the ends of the rod, but I made rights on both ends. On the KC, I'll prolly do 'em with a left & right for that very reason.

Also, I like a male rod & a female rod end, instead of the other way around.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Richie Rich
06-27-2008, 11:02 PM
Here's where I buy my pillow blocks and rod ends.....

www.thebigbearingstore.com (http://www.thebigbearingstore.com)

Look in the menu on the left side for what you want.
Fair prices and reasonable shipping.

I used the 1/4-inch rod ends on all my bike trail projects with no problems.
If you're an aggressive rider or plan to build a commuter machine, you may want to use heavier parts.

...Richie >>

gbbwolf
06-27-2008, 11:09 PM
Cool was kinda worried about the 1/4" ones I used but then im thinking,
"there isn't that much pressure on them they will work fine".

Glad to see RR used em and has no problems.


Nelson

Richie Rich
06-27-2008, 11:10 PM
Since I have a keyed shaft, I think I'll try that out, and go back to the plan on screwing on the spinners. Kid...do you use a lathe to thread your axle ends? The reason why I used the 'bolt-thru-the-hub' method for my wheels is because I can't find a local machine shop who'll take on a small threading job. I had considered welding hardened bolts on the ends of the axles, but went with the easier 'bolt/hub' method.

....RR >>

TheKid
06-28-2008, 12:44 AM
No, I have standard dies in a couple of different sizes. There's a couple of local hardware stores that will do the threading as well. Usually you have to buy the rod from them, but I help one of them out from time to time delivering flyers, so the owner repays the favor. I found out about them doing the threading by accident. I needed a 1/2" rod threaded with fine threads, so I went there to see if he had the die. He didn't, but said he'd order it. I said I needed it right away, so he said if I bought the rod there, he would have threaded it for me. For 5 bucks, I bought a new 3' rod, and he cut and threaded it for free. A short time later, I went there and saw a pile of flyers on the counter, and offered to deliver them locally for him, in exchange for some 3/8" nuts and bolts. Ever since then, whenever I need a small task performed, like getting new screen for a door, I buy the screen and he'll install it for free. And sometimes I'll go there and he has some flyers made up, so I'll just take them and deliver them for him. It works out well.

TheKid
06-28-2008, 12:58 AM
I just attempted to finish threading one end of the axle with just one arm on the handle. It was easy enough, but I didn't notice the threads are crooked. I hope I have another 5/8-11 die. This one's kinda old, and I think I bought another one last year.

Richie Rich
06-28-2008, 01:34 AM
I help one of them out from time to time delivering flyers, so the owner repays the favor.....sometimes I'll go there and he has some flyers made up, so I'll just take them and deliver them for him. It works out well.It's good to see the old "Barter" system is still alive and well in some areas.

You've got a good thing going there, Kid....hang onto it...!!

...........RR.........

TheKid
06-28-2008, 01:47 AM
I look for those opportunities. It creates good will, and reminds people they don't have to schlepp all the way to home depot for every little thing. It kills me how people have become so brainwashed. I once had a small plumbing repair to make, and I needed a few washers. As soon as I mentioned it, the customer moaned and said I'd be at HD all day because it was Saturday. I laughed and asked her if she knew there was a hardware store two blocks from her house. She said she forgot all about that. Then she said, oh, but the prices are so high there. I said I was going to buy a bucks worth of washers. How much cheaper can HD be? I took her there to introduce her to the owner. She was surprised that a lot of the stuff he had cost the same as HD or less.
Next time I go, I'm going to see if he carries JB Weld.

SirJoey
06-28-2008, 05:44 AM
Here's where I buy my pillow blocks and rod ends.....www.thebigbearingstore.com (http://www.thebigbearingstore.com)

Well, that's where I bought my pillow blox, but I hadn't considered 'em as a source for rod ends. They do have a good price on those, thanx Richie. Just hope they don't screw up my order, cuz they're sure not good at making good on their foul-ups. Remember my last disastrous dealings with 'em? http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=231&highlight=customer+service


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

SirJoey
06-28-2008, 05:53 AM
Sir Joey,
Many thanks! I just placed my order.
Larry:)

Their prices are decent & shipping is fast, but customer service leaves much to be desired: http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=231&highlight=customer+service

You'll be okay, as long as they don't screw up your order!

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif