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socialtalker
11-26-2011, 01:09 PM
welding with oxy/act has its pluses. but a big minus is having to get the tanks filled, especially when you dont have car.
i have to borrow a relatives, but i try not to do that, because the tanks are very dangerous. so i went to actually renting a uhaul vehicle because i felt so guilty. cant afford to do that anymore. so now i am looking at what i had rejected long ago, building a wheel cart of the 2 tanks. i am not sure a wheel cart would me safe enough for the road. but i dont think i have a choice. if i am to finish my projects, i have to have a way to easily fill up my tanks when needed. i figure i could build a cart where they actually stay in permanently except when being filled. so that when i need to fill them up, i just snap on a top, hooking them up to the hinge (all my bike will have hinges welded on) and go. i like the thought of the cart having a shock like the cyclebully, but i dont like the idea of a one wheel trailer for this, i think a low slung 2 wheel trailer might be best for this. anythoughs? today i have to get outside and do some welding, this might be one of the few good weather days left. tonight i will post a mock up.

charlie_r
11-26-2011, 01:35 PM
Ever seen a full bottle of oxy lose it's cap and valve? Not pretty. Even empty, it is still dangerous, due to residual pressure in the tank. Acet not so much aside from the flammability, due to the valve protection ring that has been mandatory here in the states for many years.

If you do build a trailer/cart for your bottles, it would be a good thing to make removable signs and use a flasher of some sort to wake up the inattentive drivers to the presence of the dangers above what you normally face when riding.

locolarry
11-26-2011, 03:07 PM
Sir Joey designed a two-wheeled trailer that could be modified slightly to haul your bottles.....then, when back home, you would simply stand them up with trailer still attached. I think you could build the frame just a little longer...You could find a piece of pipe slightly larger in diameter than the tanks...split it in two pieces to create tank cradles. Mount the tanks on the balance point. Perhaps Sir Joey will send you his build pics...or maybe I still have them on my other computer. we used 24" Mtn bike tires...very sturdy!
Loco

locolarry
11-26-2011, 03:30 PM
My trailer is only two pics away from SJ's in the Gallery under "Cargo Bikes".....remove the cargo box. extend the trailer length both ends for balance, add the cradles............weight should be ok, but you could build frame from 1.5 in sq tubing............

socialtalker
11-27-2011, 06:49 AM
you mean this?
http://www.atomiczombie.com/gallery/cargobikes/LARRY_ORR@BIKE_TRAILER@USA@02-15-2010@L.JPG
thats exactly what i had in mind, now i dont have to make a drawing! thanks!.... and i was going to use 24 inch wheels from a mountain bike i hacked too! i had often wondered how that cargo could sit below where i thought the axle was, until i got this old book i just got last week called THE CART BOOK which showed the two axle, 4 dropoff method. (that is a GREAT book by the way, but its out of print. i was lucky to get the last cheap copy. i am going to write to mcgraw hill, which brought out TAB books, the publisher, to put it back in print since its the only book of its kind i have seen. )
anyway, i intend to leave them sitting up, legally that is the way you are supposed to transport them. the actelyne tank is 23.5 inches, the oxygen is 21.5 inches. and they sit in a 12 by 12 milk crate. they are not the smallest tanks, but the second to smallest. thats why i keep running out of fuel. i dont have a garage with a concrete floor, just a shed with a wooden floor and i dont think that floor would take the weigt of bigger tanks. if i keep welding, and i probably will because its a such a useful thing to do. i will probably have to build a separate housing with a concrete base so i can get larger tanks and maybe have to worry about getting refills once or twice a year.
they are sitting snug in the milk crete, i keep a piece of wood between them, but they still clink then i move so i am going to put a few inches distance and they sit in their own cradle, as you say.
height, i want to make the trailer a couple of inches below the neck of each tank so it can be pulled out about 20 inches high. the snap on top will be like 8 inches or something that it completely encases the tanks.
at first i brought 1/4 by 3/4 flat bar to make the frame, but i dont think that will work, i have 1inch square tubing, do you think that will work?


My trailer is only two pics away from SJ's in the Gallery under "Cargo Bikes".....remove the cargo box. extend the trailer length both ends for balance, add the cradles............weight should be ok, but you could build frame from 1.5 in sq tubing............

socialtalker
11-27-2011, 07:00 AM
thanks, charlie-r and locolarry.
flashers and removable signs is a very good idea. these tanks dont come with caps because they are small.


Ever seen a full bottle of oxy lose it's cap and valve? Not pretty. Even empty, it is still dangerous, due to residual pressure in the tank. Acet not so much aside from the flammability, due to the valve protection ring that has been mandatory here in the states for many years.

If you do build a trailer/cart for your bottles, it would be a good thing to make removable signs and use a flasher of some sort to wake up the inattentive drivers to the presence of the dangers above what you normally face when riding.

locolarry
11-27-2011, 12:31 PM
Social Talker, I think 1" Sq tubing will be fine! I'm sending Joey a personal e-mail asking him to post his plans, will see if my old computer will power up and see If I can recover my set. Where are you located? Send me your mailing address via Locolarry@aol.com I will send you a gadget for your trailer....research old threads here for a unique trailer coupler designed by ???? Sir Joey commented a lot on it back then....Help! Help! anyone remember where that thread is???????????????? sort of a homemade u-joint.... I'm getting so old I can't remember my way home!
Loco

locolarry
11-27-2011, 01:23 PM
Ooops! I am getting old! I used 20" wheels and tires 'cause it's all I had.....Joey used 24's. . I think 20's are strong enough for what you plan....lower center of gravity, too.

charlie_r
11-27-2011, 02:26 PM
You mean something like this (http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/bcgeorge/bike%20pictures/P1000871.jpg)?

SirJoey
11-27-2011, 03:14 PM
I got the Lokester's email a few minutes ago.
Does THIS help?

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m488/sirjoey7/KroozerTrailerBlueprint2.jpg

I also have all the construction pics saved on my HD, if U need any.
Hope this helps. Thanx to our mutual buddy LocoLarry! :)




*** The **** Is My Shepherd! ***
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif
(Geezer & Bent Enthusiast At Large)

locolarry
11-27-2011, 07:16 PM
Charlie_R...I couldn't get your link to work.

Joey! Thank you Sir! That was quick and also nice of you!
Loco

locolarry
11-27-2011, 07:25 PM
Social talker,
Hang your drop outs on the sides in a similar fashion that they would be mounted on a bike (Slot facing forward(. I recommend that you make all four at the same time and clamped together so that they are exactly alike! In addition to Sir Joey's plans, I added an angular gusset to each side of the trailer tongue. You'll be a little heavy so you should do that, too.
Loco

PeterT
11-27-2011, 07:32 PM
Social Talker, I think 1" Sq tubing will be fine! I'm sending Joey a personal e-mail asking him to post his plans, will see if my old computer will power up and see If I can recover my set. Where are you located? Send me your mailing address via Locolarry@aol.com I will send you a gadget for your trailer....research old threads here for a unique trailer coupler designed by ???? Sir Joey commented a lot on it back then....Help! Help! anyone remember where that thread is???????????????? sort of a homemade u-joint.... I'm getting so old I can't remember my way home!
Loco

key search words, 3-axis trailer hitch, I know I made one & sent it to SJ, there are a coupla pics in my thread Downunder Fast Recumbent Quad F_RQ
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?2986-Easy-hitch-for-upright-bikes!&highlight=3+axis+trailer+hitch

PeterT

charlie_r
11-27-2011, 08:56 PM
Oops! Copied the wrong thing. Here (http://s1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/bcgeorge/bike%20pictures/?action=view&current=P1000871.jpg) it is again, this time I checked to make sure.

maddox
11-27-2011, 10:11 PM
Whatever you do. If a dropped/fallen acy tank feels warm, get it in water, and make off like a scalded dog. Or, with the lack of water, a ditch will do.

socialtalker
11-27-2011, 10:37 PM
thanks to locolarry, sir joey and charlie-r for you assistance! 20 inch wheels! it always boils down to 20 inch wheels! i need to get about 6 of them, if you cant believe that. for two bikes and two trailers.


SirJoey
I got the Lokester's email a few minutes ago.
Does THIS help?

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...Blueprint2.jpg
yes, thanks. that is what i thought the layout would look like.
i think i will set it for 20 inch wheels, like larry has suggested. i think wide enough for the tanks to have their regulators on when in use. i am thinking a top that will hold the hose and the other equipment as well. since it wont add that much extra weight


thanks for the offer, locolarry. i will take you up on it if the cycle-bully hitch is not appropiate. i am building the cyclebully-(on hold until i solve my pivot tube problem). all my bikes will have the universal x-y hitch that brad designed. i want to make a similar hitch arm that is on the cycle bully, among other things its looks strong. and also its good to have the same connections on everything. the thing is i wonder about the hitch connection of the cycle-bully if the bike or trike takes a spill or turns over. it looks like the hitch will twist sideways as well. that might be okay for groceries, but i dont want the welding cart to be vulnerable to that. i think with child carriers most of the hitch are made that if the adult bicycle takes a spill, the kiddie right stays upright. i am going to post that question now and see what he says.


Social Talker, I think 1" Sq tubing will be fine! I'm sending Joey a personal e-mail asking him to post his plans, will see if my old computer will power up and see If I can recover my set. Where are you located? Send me your mailing address via Locolarry@aol.com I will send you a gadget for your trailer....research old threads here for a unique trailer coupler designed by ???? Sir Joey commented a lot on it back then....Help! Help! anyone remember where that thread is???????????????? sort of a homemade u-joint.... I'm getting so old I can't remember my way home!
Loco

SirJoey
11-27-2011, 11:28 PM
...3-axis trailer hitch, I know I made one & sent it to SJ,
Yeah, & I've turned this place upside down for 5 solid days now, & can't find it.
It layed on the washer for a couple years, but now that I need it, it's vanished?

I know I didn't get rid of it, or hack it for anything. Either it's still hiding here in some
obscure location, or it's fallen through an interdimensional door, which is more likely the case. :eek:

Right now, in another dimension, some primitive is holding it in his hand & mumbling something about magic.... :goofy:



*** The **** Is My Shepherd! ***
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif
(Geezer & Bent Enthusiast At Large)

Ibedayank
11-27-2011, 11:30 PM
yes you can lay the bike down without flipping a child trailer..
unless its a single wheel you should also be able to otherwise turning could be interesting

SirJoey
11-28-2011, 10:27 AM
LocoLarry gives me too much credit. It's not exactly my design, per se. More like a piece-meal
conglomeration, based on pics of various trailers that he himself sent me a few years back.

Using those pics, I sorta "picked & chose" various elements I liked, did some measuring,
a bit of experimentation, & built the thing around the tub of my choosing.

It contains only a few minor design elements that are actually mine.
But thanx, Lokemeister! You're always generous with your praise! :)

At least the blueprint is entirely original though. :laugh3:




*** The **** Is My Shepherd! ***
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif
(Geezer & Bent Enthusiast At Large)

locolarry
11-28-2011, 09:03 PM
Blah...Blah...Blah.... It's forever known as "The Sir Joey Trailer"........So named when I built mine! Take the credit and Hush! :)
Larry

SirJoey
11-28-2011, 11:41 PM
Blah...Blah...Blah.... It's forever known as "The Sir Joey Trailer"........So named when I built mine! Take the credit and Hush! :)
Larry********** http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9149/toofunny.gif **********






*** The **** Is My Shepherd! ***
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif
(Geezer & Bent Enthusiast At Large)

socialtalker
11-29-2011, 06:17 AM
oh jeez, now you are scaring me, but thanks.

Whatever you do. If a dropped/fallen acy tank feels warm, get it in water, and make off like a scalded dog. Or, with the lack of water, a ditch will do.


thanks charlie_r, thats hitch really looks nice and it looks like but the hitch that attached to the bike is completely different than what i want to add to my bike, i wonder if the hitch attached to the trailer would work with the universal x-y hitch in the cyclebully plans.

Oops! Copied the wrong thing. Here (http://s1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/bcgeorge/bike%20pictures/?action=view&current=P1000871.jpg) it is again, this time I checked to make sure.


thanks for the good tips, will do

Social talker,
Hang your drop outs on the sides in a similar fashion that they would be mounted on a bike (Slot facing forward(. I recommend that you make all four at the same time and clamped together so that they are exactly alike! In addition to Sir Joey's plans, I added an angular gusset to each side of the trailer tongue. You'll be a little heavy so you should do that, too.
Loco

socialtalker
11-29-2011, 06:28 AM
no, i never really considered the one wheel, it didnt look safe for tank transport.

yes you can lay the bike down without flipping a child trailer..
unless its a single wheel you should also be able to otherwise turning could be interesting

i confess the pictures are quite small and cant make out how the hitch works or is set up, i have no doubt it works very well. i want to try using the hitch system that the cycle bully has first because everything will connect that way, and brad has said the 2 way trailer will stay upright. but if that hitch arm from the cycle bully doesnt work for well i take a second look at some of the suggestions posted, thanks.


key search words, 3-axis trailer hitch, I know I made one & sent it to SJ, there are a coupla pics in my thread Downunder Fast Recumbent Quad F_RQ
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showth...+trailer+hitch

PeterT

PeterT
11-29-2011, 07:09 AM
Bigger pictures for you

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2470/3964184073_871f132bb5_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patremlett/3964184073/)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2607/3964184081_eeab05af3e_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patremlett/3964184081/)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2592/3964184067_305566385e_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patremlett/3964184067/)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5082/5355838828_5150ec3055_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patremlett/5355838828/)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5002/5355222431_46717f2eef_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patremlett/5355222431/)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5284/5355221293_631a45dd18_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patremlett/5355221293/)

PeterT

charlie_r
11-29-2011, 10:56 AM
I built the hitch system for my bike because I didn't like the chainstay style. Limited turn to the right in close quarters.

In that same album on photobucket (http://s1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/bcgeorge/bike%20pictures/#!cpZZ9QQtppZZ12) you'll find more pics of the build. The rack was an afterthought.

I prefer a low tongue height over the high bike rack style, less influence from the trailer while turning. Think of the arc your hitch describes as your bike leans.

trikeman
11-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Its probably safer to haul tanks on a bike trailer than in a car. My gas suppliers won't even let you put the tanks in a closed vehicle, and have pictures of cars and vans blown up by leaks when someone tried to transport them that way. Much safer in the open air.
, so
Funny story on my tanks. I bought them used, and the guy told me they were empty so I laid them down in the back of my pick up. They had caps on them. These are not small tanks (4' high acetylene and 5' high oxygen). I got them home and put my gauges on them. They were both almost full. After I got over how unsafe it had been transporting them, I realized the gas was probably worth what I paid for the tanks, which is good because my supplier won't fill the oxygen one without ownership papers. They will only do it for smaller tanks. I have been using the gas for over several years now, but I don't weld that much with them and never cut.

socialtalker
11-30-2011, 03:25 PM
i would agree with this. although for some reason i tried to talk myself into believing a bike is just too vulnerable to be transporting such equipment. but dont have a choice really. how come you dont weld with oxy/act anymore?


trikeman
Re: welding cart for a bicycle.

Its probably safer to haul tanks on a bike trailer than in a car. My gas suppliers won't even let you put the tanks in a closed vehicle, and have pictures of cars and vans blown up by leaks when someone tried to transport them that way. Much safer in the open air.
, so




thank you very much for taking the time to post those. it does look like an excellent alternative. i will seeing how it all works out in the near future.


Bigger pictures for you
........
PeterT

thanks for the link, very nice job. i like your point about the low height. i will have to see how it these styles works out.

I built the hitch system for my bike because I didn't like the chainstay style. Limited turn to the right in close quarters.
In that same album on photobucket (http://s1094.photobucket.com/albums/i459/bcgeorge/bike%20pictures/#!cpZZ9QQtppZZ12) you'll find more pics of the build. The rack was an afterthought.

I prefer a low tongue height over the high bike rack style, less influence from the trailer while turning. Think of the arc your hitch describes as your bike leans.

trikeman
11-30-2011, 08:54 PM
i would agree with this. although for some reason i tried to talk myself into believing a bike is just too vulnerable to be transporting such equipment. but dont have a choice really. how come you dont weld with oxy/act anymore?


I do. I just got out of the bike building game for awhile. Its my favorite form of welding.

Ibedayank
12-01-2011, 01:36 AM
you get hit by a car/truck with or with out hauling the tanks it does not matter you will not be on the winning side of that.

Haul the tanks and do it in style. Just try and ride as safely as you can like everyone can NOT see you and wants to turn you into roadkill... But should ride like that all the time

schu777
12-01-2011, 10:25 AM
I think build a nice sturdy trailer to haul the tanks is fine idea. Just find the safest route, put lights on it and ride. Besides, how often do you fill the tanks? Once or twice a year?

socialtalker
12-03-2011, 02:32 PM
i had thought i would need it only once or twice or year, yes. however, i have learned over the year of welding that a good welder doing a couple of bikes would only need to refill once or twice. lol i am not a good welder, i have to repeat, go over, change my mind in the middle of welding. at least i was smart enough not to use it for cutting. also i am adding projects. i am now concurrently working or planning in the near future on four bikes, 3 trailers a powdercoating oven and two furnaces. next year i may look into gates, porch railings and gardening stuff. all based out of need, not wants. in other words, i am now not sure i will have to refill.



I think build a nice sturdy trailer to haul the tanks is fine idea. Just find the safest route, put lights on it and ride. Besides, how often do you fill the tanks? Once or twice a year?





you get hit by a car/truck with or with out hauling the tanks it does not matter you will not be on the winning side of that.

Haul the tanks and do it in style. Just try and ride as safely as you can like everyone can NOT see you and wants to turn you into roadkill... But should ride like that all the time