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View Full Version : Some investigations into the implementation of cable steering. part 1



savarin
01-13-2010, 10:17 AM
For my new steed I decided I would like cable operated steering.
No problem, should be easy.
I didnít want standard Bowden cables but unsheathed stainless steel cables with awesome polished stainless torpedo turnbuckles. It should look mega cool. (If you like that sort of thing)

Well, the first attempt was a dismal failure and I couldnít work out why it was so, the logic escaped me.

Time to investigate further. An exhaustive web search failed to throw up much at all and the only bike I found was an Infinity recumbent and a cargo bike.
Whereís the problem? Boats and planes have been controlled by cables since the dawn of time. Why so few other examples?

Time to find out.
The basic jig is just a length of wood with some holes and 2 equal lengths for the handlebar end and the front fork end plus some thin wire as the cable and thicker wire as pulleys.

Experiment number - 1.
(That top wire is tight, its an elliptical illusion somehow. Sorry, couldnít resist)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs1.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs1b.jpg

With the two arms of equal length and the terminals for the cables in alignment with the centres of the turning axis, (ie. On the diameter line) both axis on the same plane.
Works with no problems. Just as found on the Infinity Recumbent.
I donít like the width of the cables and they would catch the pedals on my bike.

savarin
01-13-2010, 10:31 AM
Experiment number - 2.
As Experiment number - 1 above but one pair of cable ends closer to the middle.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs2.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs2b.jpg

Again it works fine with no problems except the forks move more than the handlebars.
This may be an advantage in making it more sensitive or if the other way round de-sensitising the steering.
This is the same as on the Infinity.Thanks JimFPU for confirming it.

Experiment number - 3.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs3.jpg

As experiment 1 but routing the cables through two pulleys for guidance along the frame tubes or what ever. This was my preferred method and first attempt.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs3b.jpg

What a dismal failure. Look how much slack develops once you commence a turn.

Even with only one pulley the same problem occurs

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs4.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs4b.jpg

savarin
01-13-2010, 10:32 AM
Experiment numbers - 4 to a few more.
Now playing with varying amount of off-sets.

Unequal side distances.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs5.jpg

Unequal cable lengths

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs6.jpg

Off set centre axis. This actually led to a tightening of the cables.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cs7.jpg

But in other words all dismal failures.

savarin
01-13-2010, 10:42 AM
After watching for a couple of times what was going on I realised that the ends of the arms do not pull the cable throughout its arc at the same linear progression because of the way the ends are moving inwards as well as backwards (on the pulling side)
This was the ďEurekaĒ moment in why boats use a drum with the cable wrapped around it at both ends to transfer steering to the rudder or engine. (ignore Teleflex steering)


Experiment number - Iíve lost track.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/pulley2.jpg

Turn the right hand pulley (handlebars) and the left hand pulley (front forks) turns accordingly irrespective of how many direction changing pulleys (wire clips here) are in the train.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/pulley1.jpg

Pulleys, thatís the way. The cables move in a straight linear progression due to the curve. I am going to make an assumption here and suggest that as long as the centre of the pulley is on the axis of whatís turning then it works well but if the pulley axis is not in alignment with either the handlebar turning axis or steering axis then there may be a problem. I havenít tested this yet so cannot say for certain but it seems a reasonable extrapolation. (just like my first attempt seemed reasonable?:mad:)
The advantage of using pulleys is that tiny pulleys can be used to guide the cables around anything and the drive and driven pulleys do not have to be in the same plane either. Also the drive and driven pulleys can be different sizes giving different ratios of turn.
Problem solved, this is the method I will use.
Now I just have to make the pulleys.
JimFPU mentioned that relying upon tension/friction to actually move the pulleys will require very high tensions and will wear out the pulleys very fast.
I will be fixing the cables to the pulleys at each end to prevent this.
(more later once pulleys are fabricated)

Will
01-14-2010, 01:45 AM
I saw a front-loader cargo bike at the NAHMBS in 2008 that was cable-steered. It used the pulley design with what appeared to be brake cables running thru housings. I thought it would be even cooler to route the cables/housings internally, thru the frame. Many high-end racing bikes do this with rear brake cables.

graucho
01-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Anyone who does testing and shares the results are A+ in my book. Great job savarin!
I'm uneducated in implementation of the cable steering so I appreciate the testing. Thanks.

jimFPU
01-14-2010, 03:06 PM
Charles, maybe you could add the pics of the Infinity to show comparisons...

savarin
01-15-2010, 01:04 AM
Charles, maybe you could add the pics of the Infinity to show comparisons...

Here they are.

complete overview. Dead straight cable runs.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/infin4.jpg

close together at the forks but still on the axis
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/infin3.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/infin2.jpg

Wider at the handlebars end
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/infin1.jpg


I should have added that the conclusion of the testing is that ALL the pivot axis of the bars and cables MUST be exactly on the diameter of the imaginary circle the bars turn through else the cables go slack in the turn. It does not take much misalignment from the ideal before it fails. On my first attempt I intuitively aligned all the axis up but only by eye not with exact measurements. I was only out by a couple of mm (1/8" for the metrically challenged:jester:) and is was a disaster. The pulley system appears to allow a little more freedom in this context with the added advantage of allowing the cables to be routed anywhere in any direction around small pulleys.

Radical Brad
01-15-2010, 01:49 PM
A good read do far!
Keep it coming.

Brad

Wobbly John
01-16-2010, 06:49 PM
I've seen one LWB recumbent over here in the UK that used cables as steering linkage successfully, and it used pulleys as in your later experiments.

I'd stick with a linkage with track-rod ends if I made another LWB though.

savarin
01-21-2010, 09:04 AM
As I am going to cast the pulleys in aluminium we first need a pattern. This one is made of plywood with a boss in the middle and a small reinforced section that I can drill and tap for a grub screw.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/pattern.jpg

I added the boss just in case I had to resort to a real lathe to turn it into a smooth grooved pulley. This would give the jaws something to grip but Iím hoping I can do everything in the drill press with files.
The white stuff is some ultra high tech parting compound so the two halves separate with no problems. (baby powder)

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/pattern-in.jpg

For this simple casting we need one half of the flask filled up and flat. Set the pattern on top, set the top flask on top and pound in the damp sand.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/pound.jpg

Separate the two halves, remove the pattern and cut in the sprues for the molten aluminium and the gates to let the metal flow into the hole made by the pattern.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/cut-sprue.jpg

Charge up the crucible with aluminium scrap, (note the old bicycle wheel rims) place in the furnace, turn on the gas and wait till its liquid.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/charge-crucible2.jpg

It usually melts within 20 mins max, note the section of kids scooter gently sinking into the fiery mass like the terminator. This shot is through the hole in the lid of the furnace.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/red-hot.jpg

savarin
01-21-2010, 09:10 AM
Remove from the furnace,

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/lift.jpg

skim all the dross off the top,

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/skim.jpg

pour into the mould in one continuos pour.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/pour.jpg

Pour the left over into the muffin tins to make ingots for the next casting session.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/ingots2.jpg

Allow plenty of time to cool and break out with fingers crossed.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/breakout.jpg

Yeeesssss! It worked.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/finished.jpg

savarin
01-21-2010, 09:13 AM
Cut off the thin wires (breather holes in the mould) cut off the sprue, clean up with a file. Drill the centre out so a bolt can be added.
Set up in the drill press and set the speed to the fastest it can go.
Brace the file against the pillar and apply to the edge to get as round and smooth as possible.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/pm-lathe2.jpg

poor mans lathe in operation again.
(more to come)

John Lewis
01-21-2010, 09:42 AM
Nice one savarin. Love your crucible. Mine is some thick pipe with a bottom welded in. What are you using for sand? sand bentonite mix?

My aeroplane had cables on rudder and ailerons and they stayed tight. Oddly the attach points were not on the centre line in the case of the aileron . This was done to give differential. So there is a way to keep the cables tight. Unfortunately it is long enough a go that I can't remember the details.

I recall seeing a picture of a bent with cable steering that used a piece of bike chain around a sprocket at each end and cables between.

A mate had a bent with cable steering when a teenager. Think it was French. We are going round for coffee tomorrow so I'll quiz him and have a look at his photos to see what I can see.

John Lewis

Radical Brad
01-21-2010, 10:47 AM
You are redefining re-use, re-cycle.... very cool!

Brad

jimFPU
01-21-2010, 01:11 PM
OK, so cool. Is that the Gingery forge thingy? I may have to build one yet, and the Gingery lathe...

savarin
01-21-2010, 10:01 PM
Nice one savarin. Love your crucible. Mine is some thick pipe with a bottom welded in. What are you using for sand? sand bentonite mix?

straight silica sand from the landscaping centre. It needs a finer sieve than I currently have as the finish is a bit rough. The bentonite is drillers mud this time around, it make the whole lot very firm when compressed.


My aeroplane had cables on rudder and ailerons and they stayed tight. Oddly the attach points were not on the centre line in the case of the aileron . This was done to give differential. So there is a way to keep the cables tight. Unfortunately it is long enough a go that I can't remember the details.

It would be interesting to find out. There are so many variables to experiment with.


I recall seeing a picture of a bent with cable steering that used a piece of bike chain around a sprocket at each end and cables between.

I believe I saw that quite a few years ago. Didnt he have a bit of a problem keeping the cables taut enough?


A mate had a bent with cable steering when a teenager. Think it was French. We are going round for coffee tomorrow so I'll quiz him and have a look at his photos to see what I can see.

I look forward to it. Thanks John.

savarin
01-21-2010, 10:06 PM
You are redefining re-use, re-cycle.... very cool!

Brad

Brad, you have to have a go, its got everything a bloke needs. Awesome noise from the burner, phenomenal heat (warm the shed in winter:jester:) and danger.
Its amazing really how simple the whole process is and the sort of things that can be built.
The amount of aluminium scrap just laying around for the taking is astounding.

savarin
01-21-2010, 10:15 PM
OK, so cool. Is that the Gingery forge thingy? I may have to build one yet, and the Gingery lathe...

Its bigger than the Gingery one, a small garbage can.
I've cast all the parts for the Gingery lathe just have to finish off the assembly.
I use soup tins for a crucible with a baling wire handle. Its suitable for one melt only and you must ensure the burner has a reducing flame not an oxidising flame. Other than that its awesome.
Well worth the effort. John Lewis has actually finished the lathe.

jimFPU
01-21-2010, 10:18 PM
I my have to get the book to understand what you mean, but what are he differences in the flame?

savarin
01-22-2010, 12:54 AM
I my have to get the book to understand what you mean, but what are he differences in the flame?

Oxidising flame = too much air so the tin can instantly rusts and burns through and the molten aluminium oxidises giving too much dross.

Reducing flame leaves a little unburnt gas in the mix thus burning all the oxygen up in the furnace ensuring the minimum amount of oxidation possible.

John Lewis
01-22-2010, 02:33 AM
This is a tad off topic but since savarin mentioned it here are some shots of my Gingery lathe and shaper. I'm cutting a gear on the shaper. Notice the nifty indexer made from wood disk and bandsaw blade. The same index setup on the lathe for gear cutting or drilling spaced holes. you can just make out the flycutter.I must make one to do the hub disks. Sorry poor quality photos from way back.

John Lewis

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Machines/lathe1.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Machines/lathe2.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Machines/ks027.jpg

savarin
01-22-2010, 05:38 AM
What I think is so over the top awesome is that you can make precision equipment from junk and scrap.
Every Zombie should consider doing this or something similar.
:rockon::rockon:

GregLWB
01-22-2010, 01:46 PM
Savarin,

I find myself really looking forward to updates on this thread. Very interesting just soaking up the info.

Greg

graucho
01-22-2010, 01:51 PM
Same for me savarin. I'm always keeping track of the latest pioneers in the biking world. Great thread man.

jimFPU
01-22-2010, 01:53 PM
I read the whole Gingery site yesterday. If y'all have a chance check it out (http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/index.html)!

savarin
01-23-2010, 08:45 AM
Now to get them fully round we have to take off a fair bit of metal. The bolt on its own in the middle is not enough to keep the pully spinning so it needs the help of a lock screw.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/lock-screw.jpg

We also need better tools than a rusty file so I ground these cutters from a couple of old files

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/file-tools.jpg

plenty of sparks, note the feathers at the end of the streaks denoting its hardened steel.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/sparks.jpg

Use the point of the flat to turn the face flat. I clamped a block to the table to brace the turning tools against, just like wood turning.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/turn-face.jpg

Now turn the edge. I used both the flat edge and the point. The chips go everywhere but they didnt come out in the photo.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/turn-edge.jpg

savarin
01-23-2010, 09:03 AM
Now use the round tool to cut the pulley groove

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/turn-groove.jpg

For the second pulley I tried the angle grinder method.It works fast but is harder to keep it centered so my second pulley has one thin edge.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/angle-grind-pulley.jpg

remove from drill and clamp tightly to the table and using a hole saw remove the middle.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/middle-out.jpg

Mark out where the cable holes have to be drilled

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/mark-out.jpg

savarin
01-23-2010, 09:04 AM
and set up to drill. Be aware that the drill will be starting on a slope not at 90' to the pulley.
I decided to bend the cables back at an angle so there was no chance of them slipping out the holes.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/drill-cable-hole.jpg

Now drill 2 holes on each cable hole and tap them for the locking grub screws.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/tap-holes.jpg

And here is the finished pulley. I have relieved the area where they bend into the fixing holes. Now to make the fixing brackets for them.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/finished-pulley.jpg

savarin
01-23-2010, 09:16 AM
A safety note I totally forgot about.
If using a drill for the kind of side loads this work entails be very very careful that the chuck does not spin off. Its usually only held on by a taper. :oops:
Mine kept falling off during general drilling so I epoxy glued it in place years ago.
When it spins off under full speed it travels with astounding force a long way if your face is not in the way.:eek::eek:
BE WARNED.
Sorry for not mentioning it sooner

savarin
02-02-2010, 09:32 AM
The pulleys are now installed on the bike.
These views are with the bike upside down.
Three tabs keep the pulley rigid and the handle bars fit behind the the pivot.
The two little pulleys are from a mirror door wardrobe and have ball races in them.
I decided to use these to pull the cables into the centre line of the frame rather than having them wider than the frame.
The idea being there was less chance of catching feet on them.
At the moment the cables are standard brake cables, I'm awaiting my stainless cables with rigging screws to arrive.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/steering-pulley.jpg

My bottom bracket is slung under the boom rather than on top and again has two small pulleys keeping the steering cables parallel. From here they spread out to the pulley mounted on the fork.
Its not an optical illusion, the chain rings are oval, or to be precise three biopace rings.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/crank-pulley.jpg

The front pulley is bolted to a half moon steel plate welded to the forks. A bit too much overkill here but I was unsure how much tension would be required.
Not so much as to need this huge plate.
All in all the action is incredibly smooth and it may have been beneficial to have made the rear pulley smaller than the front so more handlebar movement was required for the amount of wheel turn required.
Another experiment looming here.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/fork-pulley.jpg

Although it has not been ridden yet I'm feeling very optimistic of its behavior.
Lets hope that feeling is not misplaced.

Radical Brad
02-02-2010, 12:24 PM
Looks like it will be a successful launch!

Brad

savarin
03-19-2010, 09:45 AM
Who Hoo, it works.
First job was to silver solder the ends of the cable so they wont fray.
This was not a simple job and it wouldnt solder.
I made a small crucible from some copper pipe and filled it with molten silver solder.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/melt.jpg
Then dipped the stainless cable into some phosphoric acid flux then into the molten silver solder.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/dip.jpg
The stainless cable is 9 strands of 9strands and is extremely flexible 2.5mm dia.
I will take more close ups later but here it is on the first test, no brakes (obligatory) no gears etc.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/steering/newtest.jpg

ken will
10-24-2010, 10:39 PM
Your pulleys look about 4" in diameter. Do you think smaller ones would work as well?

Do the cables need to be tightened often?

You are using stainless but do you think plain old brake cable would work ?

savarin
10-24-2010, 11:55 PM
Your pulleys look about 4" in diameter. Do you think smaller ones would work as well?

Hi Ken, there was no theory as to the dia of the pulleys. I just happened to make them that size. I see no reason why smaller pulleys wouldnt work but personally I wouldnt go much smaller than 3" Just a "feeling" regarding leverage


Do the cables need to be tightened often?

So far they havnt needed any re-tensioning and everyone who has tried (and succeeded) in riding the bike have remarked on how smooth the steering is.


You are using stainless but do you think plain old brake cable would work ?

I see no reason why not. How are you going to tension the cable?
An idea, a short length of outer cable with adjusters at each end sitting in cable stops at each end of the outer cable. The idea that as the outer is lengthened by the adjusters it get longer holding the inner under tension. Must be an easier way somehow.
I think its the lack of any outer cable that keeps it so smooth.

ken will
10-25-2010, 12:53 AM
I see no reason why not. How are you going to tension the cable?
An idea, a short length of outer cable with adjusters at each end sitting in cable stops at each end of the outer cable. The idea that as the outer is lengthened by the adjusters it get longer holding the inner under tension. Must be an easier way somehow.
I think its the lack of any outer cable that keeps it so smooth.

That's what I planing on doing. I plan to use two short pieces of outer cable where the front axle pivots, with a pair of adjusters. By tightening one adjuster and loosening the other I can change the toe-in/toe-out.

The blue lines are the cables, the red lines are the outer cables, and the green blobs are the adjusters.

http://bah71w.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p8clXwpEUD-nos5zdbxUQrvxv5Alhzoa2IZ96YUnD1qThTHPn3OyVwG9fZOlL X0FNCDBdeCbVgaUU9oxlRk4SGlpv3n0guiPo/steer%20cables.JPG?psid=1

savarin
10-25-2010, 03:56 AM
Hmm, very interesting, using cables to turn two front wheels.
I think if it were me I would wrap the cables round the pulley at least once, similar to a boat steering.
One pulley above the other??

ken will
10-25-2010, 08:39 AM
One pulley above the other??

Possibly.
I have some pulleys for a Patio door, that are 1/4" thick, so I would use one above the other.
The problem is they are only 1 1/4" in diameter.

I have tried a couple of ways to make pulleys, that didn't turn out very good.I have a couple of more ways to try, and if worse comes to worse I will buy some.

I was watching the National Geographic Channel last night which showed that Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo ( designed by Burt Rutan ) is steered by cables and pulleys!!!!

I think I will try the local airport ( which just happens to be next to the Bike Trail ) to see if they have any pulleys I can use!

Odd Man Out
10-25-2010, 08:56 AM
I have bought small high quality pulleys from this company. Download and puruse the PDF caltalog. It will get your creative juices flowin -- good stuff.

http://www.savacable.com/

ken will
10-25-2010, 10:37 AM
I have bought small high quality pulleys from this company. Download and puruse the PDF caltalog. It will get your creative juices flowin -- good stuff.

http://www.savacable.com/


Wow!!! Thanks!

I downloaded the PDF http://64.201.227.3/sava/sava_cat.pdf

savarin
10-25-2010, 08:41 PM
Possibly.
I have some pulleys for a Patio door, that are 1/4" thick, so I would use one above the other.
The problem is they are only 1 1/4" in diameter.

Thats quite a tight bend to wrap a cable round, not impossible but less strain if you go larger.



if worse comes to worse I will buy some.

KEN, wash your mouth out with soap and water:jester: Cast them like I did, then its a custom made to the right size. Honestly, its not difficult to do but becomes addictive and you will have another time consuming hobby. (custom plaques to sell in the markets?)

Just thinking out loud here...Do you really need two cables to each wheel?
If the front wheels are tied together with a rod (or cable) then couldnt each single cable be used in place of the steering rods?????
Experiment required here, hmmm, half pulleys or quadrants on the wheel end and wrapped pulley at the steering end should keep the tension even throughout the turn. What about ackerman compensation? Should still work if the quadrants are in the correct place. ie. the contact of the cable on the quadrant is in the spot that a push rod would be.



I think I will try the local airport ( which just happens to be next to the Bike Trail ) to see if they have any pulleys I can use!

Will you need the bearing in the middle that most pulleys come with? That adds to the cost.

ken will
10-25-2010, 09:47 PM
Thats quite a tight bend to wrap a cable round, not impossible but less strain if you go larger.

I would like at least 3"



KEN, wash your mouth out with soap and water:jester: Cast them like I did, then its a custom made to the right size. Honestly, its not difficult to do but becomes addictive and you will have another time consuming hobby. (custom plaques to sell in the markets?)

I have been tempted all my life to try casting, but, so far, I have chickened out.
You make it sound so simple I might just have to try it.


Just thinking out loud here...Do you really need two cables to each wheel?
If the front wheels are tied together with a rod (or cable) then couldnt each single cable be used in place of the steering rods?????
Experiment required here, hmmm, half pulleys or quadrants on the wheel end and wrapped pulley at the steering end should keep the tension even throughout the turn. What about ackerman compensation? Should still work if the quadrants are in the correct place. ie. the contact of the cable on the quadrant is in the spot that a push rod would be.

I have to go out of state for a couple of days, so I wouldn't get a chance to try anything, but I am sure that's all I will be thinking about.



Will you need the bearing in the middle that most pulleys come with? That adds to the cost.

No I don't need the bearings. I have been calling them pulleys, but they are really just round discs with a grove. I don't know what the right word is.

socialtalker
10-05-2011, 06:03 PM
did anyone see the build of the gears of war trike on american chopper?
push pull cables were used for the steering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMY5t-xG44

schu777
10-06-2011, 09:02 AM
That trike is pretty darn cool...just too bad they didn't show more detail for the steering...

savarin
10-06-2011, 09:17 AM
I think those push pull cables are similar to the cable steering in small power boats. Many years ago it was called "Teleflex" steering.
Aha! it still is http://www.biasboating.com.au/p-555-teleflex-steering-cables.aspx

ken will
10-06-2011, 06:01 PM
That trike is awesome.

The cable steered trike I was working on got buried in the back of the shed.
I guess I'll have to dig it out.

John Lewis
10-08-2011, 06:54 AM
Savarin will know of which I speak.

The Jabiru light sports aircraft built in his neck of the woods used teleflex cables for the ailerons, elevator and rudder. That should give confidence if you wish to use them.

On a side note I never really liked the feel of the Jabiru ailerons. It was a great machine to fly all the same and I piloted one on two trips across Australia.

I have one somewhere in the shed. If it will fit I'll try it on the Wolf or the Marauder and see how it goes.

John

charlie_r
10-08-2011, 08:09 AM
Hmmm. You guys are the greatest! I'll have to try this on a future build. Seems to me to be the best way to get the steering on a bike/trike with non traditional frame geometry. No rods to get in the way of any drive gear, and/or any accessories one might need on an HPV.

Thanks for the ideas!

As for casting, that is already a no-no, as shmbo has already said "nimby" to that idea (she was looking over my shoulder while I was reading this thread). But there may be a way around that. 3 steel plates, 2 of one size sandwiching a third smaller one with grooves cut in for the cable attachments might work.

savarin
10-08-2011, 08:25 AM
As for casting, that is already a no-no, as shmbo has already said "nimby" to that idea (she was looking over my shoulder while I was reading this thread). But there may be a way around that. 3 steel plates, 2 of one size sandwiching a third smaller one with grooves cut in for the cable attachments might work.

That will work easy. You need to think of something that she would love cast:smartass2:
There are so many things that will pop to mind once you start.
The easiest way is a small can, charcoal and a hair drier. That gets hot enough.:evilgrin:

charlie_r
10-09-2011, 06:15 AM
I have a couple of pieces of 8" steel well casing not doing anything.


Oops, better stop now, I'm getting ideas!:*****::*****:

John Lewis
10-09-2011, 09:42 AM
The easiest way is a small can, charcoal and a hair drier. That gets hot enough.:evilgrin:
Thats how I did my Gingery lathe. Charcoal and a hair dryer from the thrift shop.
John

savarin
07-24-2013, 08:45 AM
Just a quick update. The cables are just starting to need a teenie teenie tighten. I think it will be approx 1/16 of a turn of the turnbuckles its so small an amount. Still get comments about the smoothness of the steering.

ken will
07-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Have you tried using a 3-D printed plastic object to create a mold to cast with ?

savarin
07-25-2013, 08:18 PM
Have you tried using a 3-D printed plastic object to create a mold to cast with ?

No but I believe others have.
My daughter is considering getting a 3d printer for her art work so there is a chance I might have a go sometime.

ken will
07-26-2013, 08:19 AM
My daughter is considering getting a 3d printer for her art work so there is a chance I might have a go sometime.

Excellent!

Olys45
03-23-2014, 11:34 AM
This is an interesting thread, especially since I worked on the venerable KC-135 Air Refueling Tanker for the USAF for 17 of my 20 years I served. I worked on the Hydraulics and Air Refueling Boom which was controlled by a stick, a set of jackshafts and cables. Not to mention that when I first enlisted my career field was half Aero Repair (flight controls and picking up crashed jets) so I became well versed in rigging cables!

Oly

darnthedog
03-23-2014, 01:36 PM
Hello Olys45 or Oly
Welcome to the group- I noted you have 3 posting and no hello who you are or what your about. Now that is just plain rude. But we forgive and forget. It is good that our simply hobby will fit into your life experiences.
Most flight repair techs I know never got to play with welding while in the service. But it is a fun rewarding endeavor to learn how. Most just end up swapping parts from inventory when I was in the Navy and then they always got questioned a million different ways if they tightened the screw the right way. But those were Naval Air men and women. None of them lifers.
So what are you looking to build yourself? I'd suggest a six pack of plans to get a variety of ideas. If you go with cable steering it is a fairly uncommon concept on this site. Savarin is the engineer of the marvel you are reading about. I look forward to seeing what you build whether you use traditional steering or cable steering it does not matter. We love watching a cycle come together.
Again welcome to the group and I thought I would say hi.

Olys45
03-23-2014, 04:32 PM
Thanks DD!
I just hadn't made it that far before I was called away from the tablet this morning.
Oly