PDA

View Full Version : Underseat steering on a HighRoller?



Kobber
09-04-2009, 04:02 AM
Hi folks,

Anyone ever try putting USS on a HighRoller?

Something about that gooseneck sticking up right between your legs looks odd to me ... and slightly disquieting. USS would be visually more discreet (which appeals to me) and might make getting on and off a bit easier.

I've searched this forum but haven't found anything specific. I'm still prepping my workspace in order build a fold-up workbench in order to learn how to weld in order to build a HighRoller ... so I may still have time to consider my options.

Thanks for any feedback and take it easy.

Radical Brad
09-04-2009, 01:08 PM
You may be interested in what I will be showing early next week!

Brad

Kobber
09-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Ooooh, a teaser! Tell me what it is, please please please!:wacky:

I won't tell anyone, I swear! :gossip:

SirJoey
09-05-2009, 03:41 PM
Ooooh, a teaser! Tell me what it is, please please please!:wacky:
I won't tell anyone, I swear! :gossip: "The information will not be disclosed" - Adm. Kirk


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

likebikes
09-05-2009, 06:10 PM
Kobber and Sir Joey won't be the only ones waiting!

Kobber
09-09-2009, 02:10 AM
Getting impatient here. It's almost mid-week, now. Did I miss something?

Kobber
09-10-2009, 03:03 AM
Morning all,

So I've seen the Kids' Choppers, Trikes and Electric Bikes (http://www.atomiczombie.com/product-kidsbikes.htm), put online yesterday. Nice to think up a few projects for kids - especially the Little Warrior tadpole trike. My daughter still can't ride a bike, by the way.


You may be interested in what I will be showing early next week!
Brad

Indeed, Brad, but I'm not sure how these projects relate to my question about underseat steering on the HighRoller.

I might add to and augment my question by asking whether anyone has tried a HighRoller with 28" wheels? I'm guessing that would have a direct effect on the amount of torque the rider would have to generate, thus making a sufficient set of gears more important.

Any takers? Any ideas?

Take it easy, everyone.

Kobber

John Lewis
09-10-2009, 03:47 AM
Well I might as well put in my 2c worth.

28 inch wheels on a highroller I think would be no different to 700c that I think Brad may have used. The difficulty would stem from how long your legs are. Can you sit on the bike and reach the ground properly. That would be my problem. It is even a stretch for me on my bike with a 26 inch rear and 20 inch front wheel. If your legs are long enough it would be fine.

Now regarding USS. I had a nasty fall at speed. The bent usually goes over sideways. Had my hands been on USS bars they would have taken the full brunt of the fall. As it was the side of the seat and the handlebar end took most of it. I suffered some gravel rash on the hip and elbow. Enough for a trip to casualty. I feel I would have seriously damaged my hands if USS was used and decided then and there not to use it on a two wheel bent. I have it on my trike though.

That said, if you are not concerned and think I could be overreacting to the danger. I think it would be a great feeling of freedom riding with USS. I see no reason it couldn't be fitted to the highroller.

John Lewis

badcheese
09-10-2009, 04:28 AM
I have thought about putting USS on my High Roller. I have too much tiller right now, and when I have some spare time I'll redesign my steering. Most likely I will keep the OSS and just make the stem more upright, but I'm also considering USS. It would get rid of the tiller and shorten the cable runs quite a bit. I would need to find another place to mount my computer and light. The light can probably go on the front derailleur tube, but the computer needs to be somewhere easy to see.

It will have to wait a while, because my higher priorities are finishing my seat mod and shortening the crank arms before my upcoming 160 mile (257km) charity ride. If I do try USS, I will certainly post pictures and a ride report here.

jimFPU
09-10-2009, 08:45 AM
I love my USS, I just need the seat redesigned to be more leaned back.

I have considered a crash at speed, especially now that I have the motor...my life insurance is up! LOL!

Kobber
09-10-2009, 09:26 AM
I love my USS, I just need the seat redesigned to be more leaned back.


Is that on a HighRoller, or some other SWB 'bent? Got any photos?

How about a bell guard like on a fencing foil or something lighter and less likely to actually restrict hand movement or get in the way?

And as for the 28" wheels, the height requirement seems obvious ... how come I didn"t think of that? Come to think of it, 24" wheels might be a comfy ride, too, not that I'm that short or anything ...

Thanks for the ideas and input!

Kobber

jimFPU
09-10-2009, 11:07 AM
It's on my factory built Infinity:

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r399/jnk6/DSC00114-1.jpg

Note the cables for the steering...might change that to a solid rod, after thinking about high speed crashes, and high speed failures...:builder2:

Racer46
09-10-2009, 05:41 PM
Jim, I'm not real happy with the seat on my Infinity either. I think a new seat will be my first project. Here is the most recent picture I have of it:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/3776805774_69e1e649bd_b.jpg
I've put about 1500 miles on it since I purchased it in October of '08.

jimFPU
09-10-2009, 10:03 PM
Hey 46, nice clean ride! I still have those wheels and brakes...I think the brakes are in pieces though. I had to go with bigger tires and change out the rims to accomodate them. Especially with the addition of the motor! I will tell you this though, that motor makes it REAL fast!!! :scooter:

I'm thinking of either custom building a SWB FWD low racer to add a full fairing and the motor to, or just add stuff to my Infinity...it's starting to look like a Mad Max bike though!! LOL!! :punk:

Can you give me more details (pics) on your steering? I like those bar ends, how do they ride? I've wanted to try something like that but just couldn't seem to mak it work right. I also like how you added the mirror on the front! Genious! How well can you see with it way out there?

Racer46
09-11-2009, 01:40 AM
The bar ends are from a Linear. I bought them from Bicycle Man in N.Y. I have short arms and can't comfortably reach the handlebars without them. The rear wheel is a 700c with a double wall rim. I kept breaking spokes on the old 27" and my LBS had this one hanging from a rafter. He gave me a deal on it. The brakes are dual pivot, long reach Tektros.
Pictures of the bar ends before the new shifters & brakes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/3209919723_f515a9325a_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3443157765_740c152300_o.jpg

The mirror really needs to be further out. By the time a I can see a car, it's next to me. I use a Take-A-Look helmet mounted mirror when I'm riding on the road. One of these days I'll extend the bar out, it's just a piece of conduit.

I was going to do a short wheelbase as my first build but I'm concerned about the Infinity. I'm fairly heavy and don't want to crack the aluminum frame, so I'll probably do a long wheelbase first. I've purchased the Meridian plans and will build that with some mods to make it lower. Then I'll make one with a short main tube and attach the bottom bracket boom to the headset, creating a SWB midracer type. 2 bikes from the same basic plans.

jimFPU
09-11-2009, 09:46 AM
Nice! Thanks!

John Lewis
09-11-2009, 10:16 PM
Quick question. Is the Infinity Aluminum or steel? Looks like Ali in the pic but could be the paint.

John Lewis

Racer46
09-12-2009, 09:15 AM
No paint. I named mine Godiva because she's bare aluminum.

jimFPU
09-12-2009, 10:37 AM
Mine is bare AL also. I may one day try to polish it...but that would be like...work.:jester:

Kobber
09-14-2009, 07:47 AM
This is sweet, all the pics and ideas are great.

I'm starting to think I'll stick with 26" wheels so I won't need high-heel shoes to mount it, but I'd like to sketch out an underseat steering set-up - something solid like the DeltaWolf Under Seat Steering Mod (http://www.atomiczombie.com/videos/dwmod1/dwmod1.htm).

The USS on the Infinity looks very lightweight compared to Brad's USS mod - like it's hanging on one small bolt. Does it feel solid? I'd definitely go with a solid rod over cables.

Jim, that motor looks sweet. Whaddya call that thing, a belt-drive motor or what? I had to look closely, as I've never seen anything quite like it on a bike. I'm assuming it's electric. Or is it?

I'm looking at hub motors right now for another project that is gathering speed (in my mind only, unfortunately). Here is a pic (http://picasaweb.google.com/kowderoi/RecumbentAndCo?authkey=Gv1sRgCLyblJuvg7GPsQE#53725 28106951619522) for anyone interested. I'll start another thread if it ever takes off: the "CycleBully Trailerbike" thread.

As it stands, my workbench project is coming along, slowly but surely, so I may be in a position to actually start some of these projects before old man winter settles in :xmas: (my garage is not heated ... that's where the welding comes in, I guess).

Take it easy everyone.

Kobber

jimFPU
09-14-2009, 08:40 AM
Jim, that motor looks sweet. Whaddya call that thing, a belt-drive motor or what? I had to look closely, as I've never seen anything quite like it on a bike. I'm assuming it's electric. Or is it?


It's a GEBE. http://www.bikeengines.com/tanaka32info.htm

Kobber
09-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Cute. Reminds me of the Solex I had oh-so-many years ago. Here's a photo of the model I had (http://www.e-monsite.com/solex/er85ld3-solex2.jpg), except I painted mine lemon yellow. It was, all told, a pretty crappy ride, though, and was very high maintenance. In the rain it would rev all to hell as the engine (mounted above the front wheel) worked directly by friction on the rubber of the front tire. They're now making e-Solexes, but you won't see me on one.

Take it easy.

Kobber

Racer46
09-14-2009, 07:38 PM
The USS on the Infinity is just 1 bolt. It seems to be working and I will probably do something similar on the Meridian that I will hopefully be starting shortly.

Kobber
09-15-2009, 03:31 AM
You may be interested in what I will be showing early next week!
Brad

Ooookaaaaaaaaaaay, now I know what Brad was talking about! The indefatigable garage hacker does it again with the Voyageur (http://www.atomiczombie.com/product-voyageur.htm).

I've been around this place for all of three months and I've already seen four or five new sets of plans come online. Is there a sweatshop full of little green welders from Mars over there in Thunderbay? :alien::D

Anyway, this does indeed look like something right up my alley. Here are my first impressions.

I like:
the USS,
the reclined position,
the general long, streamlined shape,
the chain tube,
no heel scrub,
the suspension,
the smaller front wheel,
looks easier to mount than the HR (lower).


This is a very mature design, imho. I hope I'm up to it.

Now, I'm talking theory here, because I have never even ridden a recumbent (glows with shame), but what I like about the HighRoller is the height (better visibility in traffic), but this also means putting your feet on the ground is less comfortable, and I plan on doing mostly commuting (I'm a city biker, not the type of guy who goes out for a 100-km ride on a Sunday morning ... although that could change if I had the right bike). And heel scrub, don't like that idea of that. The HR is a lot less elegant, too, hence my question about the USS.

Perhaps I could do both and compare?

To conclude: Brad, slow down, I can't keep up with you anymore!

Kobber

trikeman
09-15-2009, 04:22 AM
Kobber - if you intend to use the bike as a city commuter, you may want to think about whether a long wheel base (LWB) bike is suitable for you. Many people do not like to commute on LWBs because it is harder to see around corners, and these bikes are quite long, so maneuverability can be more difficult. I like riding my LWB on the bike trails, but would not want to commute in city traffic with it. A short wheel base, such as the HighRoller may be more suitable.The HighRoller can be built quite nicely with the smaller front wheel, which makes it easier to put your feet down.

Kobber
09-15-2009, 05:04 AM
Hi trikeman,

The lenth of the Voyageur was something I planned on looking into, actually, and I have seriously considered the HR with a smaller front wheel, as well (26"-20", for example, or why not 28"-24"?). So perhaps I'm not too far off base, despite my lack of experience in the matter. But I like the look of the Voyageur. Somehow I'm going to find a way to customise the HR to suit my needs ... Things are taking shape in my mind.

As I've said all along, I'm still in the dreamy phase of conception, so the sky's the limit. The *****, however, is in the details. I'm sure no one around here needs convincing of that.

Take it easy.

Kobber

likebikes
09-16-2009, 09:15 PM
The bar ends are from a Linear. I bought them from Bicycle Man in N.Y. I have short arms and can't comfortably reach the handlebars without them. The rear wheel is a 700c with a double wall rim. I kept breaking spokes on the old 27" and my LBS had this one hanging from a rafter. He gave me a deal on it. The brakes are dual pivot, long reach Tektros.
Pictures of the bar ends before the new shifters & brakes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/3209919723_f515a9325a_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3443157765_740c152300_o.jpg

The mirror really needs to be further out. By the time a I can see a car, it's next to me. I use a Take-A-Look helmet mounted mirror when I'm riding on the road. One of these days I'll extend the bar out, it's just a piece of conduit.

I was going to do a short wheelbase as my first build but I'm concerned about the Infinity. I'm fairly heavy and don't want to crack the aluminum frame, so I'll probably do a long wheelbase first. I've purchased the Meridian plans and will build that with some mods to make it lower. Then I'll make one with a short main tube and attach the bottom bracket boom to the headset, creating a SWB midracer type. 2 bikes from the same basic plans.

I'd love to see more pics of this bike. A guy brought one that I think was almost exactly like it to the Minneapolis HPVA meeting earlier this month. He had some amusing tales about the cable steering!

Racer46
09-16-2009, 10:13 PM
Pictures from the day I brought it home up to about May 2009:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31561226@N03/sets/72157608213636691/

Some photos of how I transport it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31561226@N03/sets/72157616391893120/

The most recent picture I have is on the previous page sitting in front of McD's.

I had owned this bike for a couple of weeks when I took it on a ride with some hills. (Yes there are hills in Central Florida) I was going about 30 mph when the front end started shaking violently. It was all I could do to keep from becoming "Road Pizza". This happened a couple of more times at higher & lower speeds. It seemed to be induced if I hit a bump. When I got home I did some research, seems you need to keep those cables "Banjo Tight", mine were not loose but not tight by any stretch of the imagination. They are now kept very tight and checked for corrosion & wear on a regular basis. I was going to switch out the cables for a rod but I think my first build will be a LWB and I will retire the Infinity.

likebikes
09-17-2009, 05:34 AM
Awesome bike. Will you be looking to do USS on your build?
I'm not convinced I want to try USS yet. I admit that I haven't even tried it yet so I can't really say I'd like it or not but I'm not having any issues with steering, even on my raked out floppy front end!

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/bicycle/Finishedbike001.jpg

Racer46
09-17-2009, 09:36 AM
Nice looking bike, in fact your bike with USS is what I'm planning to build. A Meridian with a straight line between the main boom and the chain stays. I'll also stand the headtube up to about 70* yours seems to be about 50* which is causing some of your wheel flop, due to the large amount of trail.

It took me about 5 minutes to get comfortable with USS and I now greatly prefer it to OSS.

jimFPU
09-17-2009, 10:24 AM
Besides that, it looks really cool!

likebikes
09-17-2009, 12:45 PM
Nice looking bike, in fact your bike with USS is what I'm planning to build. A Meridian with a straight line between the main boom and the chain stays. I'll also stand the headtube up to about 70* yours seems to be about 50* which is causing some of your wheel flop, due to the large amount of trail.

It took me about 5 minutes to get comfortable with USS and I now greatly prefer it to OSS.

Yes, I confess, when building my bike, somone asked what what my rake and trail would be. I said, "I don't rake the trails man, I just ride them!" :jester:

Kobber
09-18-2009, 04:39 PM
Check it out, I built my first bike in 20 minutes!

PHOTO HERE. (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/kowderoi/RecumbentAndCo?authkey=Gv1sRgCLyblJuvg7GPsQE#53829 03493769914098)

Sincerest apologies to the victim of my photo-chop, but I couldn't resist.:shame:

But seriously, when I saw the Voyageur, which is a very fine piece of work, I knew there was something there for me work with.

I threw together this montage to illustrate an idea I had yesterday. Can any of you wiser and more experienced folks think of a reason I shouldn't try to transform this LWB design into a SWB one, more suited to my city-biker needs? I guess the way it looks in the photo the chain would hit up against the front forks, but that could be addressed in a number of ways. And there could be some serious heel scrub too. A slightly longer head tube (like I've seen on some high-sitting Dutch bikes) might help raise the boom (and hence the chain and the rider's feet) out of the way, but the angle to the boom would would have to be worked out again.

This looks appeals to me as it's an SWB, it's sleek, it's not too low for traffic, but not so high as to create balancing problems (for a beginner like me) when stopping and starting. The weight of the rider seems fairly well centred as well, and chopping off a foot or so of tubing at the front (along with a shorter steering rod) might lighten up the load a bit too. Cable routing is shorter. I'm not sure how necessary the suspension is, but I read Brad in a Voyageur thread saying the monoboom makes it pretty much a necessity. Hmmm, can't think of anything else for the moment.

Has anyone seen any commercial bikes along these lines? I'd love to have some feedback.

Have a nice weekend everyone!

Kobber (the photo-chopper)

badcheese
09-18-2009, 05:28 PM
I guess the way it looks in the photo the chain would hit up against the front forks, but that could be addressed in a number of ways. And there could be some serious heel scrub too.

The High Roller has the same issues, and you can deal with them the same way. The heel scrub isn't dangerous. When you get used to it you can easily avoid it by not turning very sharply toward the low foot. The return chain can be kept away from the front fork by an idler or tube.


I'm not sure how necessary the suspension is, but I read Brad in a Voyageur thread saying the monoboom makes it pretty much a necessity.

I think he was saying it's necessary in the Voyageur because the monoboom is made of thin-wall round tube. The High Roller also has a monoboom, but the square tube is strong enough to make suspension unnecessary. BUT... having ridden my High Roller for a few months now, a little bit of suspension would not be such a bad thing! I'm very happy with the High Roller as it is (though I'll continue to tinker with it endlessly, of course), but my seat padding isn't good enough for the long rides I've been doing.

I am still considering USS for my High Roller, but it's too far down on my list right now. I will be very interested to see what you decide to do.

trikeman
09-18-2009, 06:21 PM
At least one of our members (comreich) built an unsuspended at the rear high roller using 1 5/8" very thin wall tubing that Home Depot sells as a fence post. Many unsuspended trikes have round tubes that are less than 2". The difference is that the span on the high roller is shorter, and the load is concentrated more at the center of the tube. Trike tubes are even shorter. The Voyager tube's unsupported span is quite a bit longer. If you get a thin walled tube and put it on two bricks say a few feet apart, you can probably jump on it without permantly bending it, but put the bricks 5 feet apart and you may be able to bend it. Of course you can always use a large enough tube to span 10 feet without bending, but its diameter will have to be larger to make it work.

likebikes
09-21-2009, 09:11 PM
My LWB is built out of too heavy steel yet it still has enough flex to soften the ride. I helped the ride out by using saddle gel in the seat. My seat is three layers, exercise mat foam, gel and chair pad. I plan on dumping the chair pad for more exercise foam pad on my next project. I believe that a longer frame is known to ride better than a short one so when I do my High Roller, I'm seriously looking to have some kind of seat suspension. I'll have a front suspension from the doner mountain bike so I hope to have a compliant ride for my aging tush.