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likebikes
07-13-2009, 01:15 PM
Well, on the drawing board figuratively anyway since AZ did all the planning! I have a wrinkle I'd like to see if anyone can advise me on. I've learned a little about rake and trail now, two words that I had almost no understanding of a while ago. I noticed that the plans I rec'd and the pics of all the High Rollers with 26" front wheels have slightly curved forks. This wouldn't have even crossed my mind a short while ago but I have a set of forks from a mountain bike with spring suspension I was planning to use in my build. I love the way Brad lets go and rides with no hands, something I can't do on my LWB. I'm not all that crazy about riding with no hands but I don't like fighting the steering either. My LWB has what the guys at the MNHPV (Human Powered Vehicles) meeting referred to as flop. I call it flop and drop since while drinking or map reading from the seat with no hands on the bars can occaisionslly allow the front wheel to go 90 degrees on me and I hit the trail, sort of like a road apple and usually in front of bystanders... : )
I'm concerned that my straight forks won't have the correct trail now with the standard rake he details in the plan, which is 90 degrees to the frame tube. I'm wondering if I need to find other forks or change the rake angle to compensate?

comreich
07-13-2009, 04:42 PM
I think I can answer that one, given that I have suspension forks on my HighRacer:
http://comreich.ods.org/~reich/highracer

You've added a little bit to your confusion, so let's try to unconfuse you :) The head tube is mounted at 90 degrees to the main tube to make the actual Head Tube Angle (HTA) work out to ~74 degrees when the fork and wheels are installed. So, if you a draw a line through the centre of the steerer (and parallel to it), it will intersect a horizontal (e.g., the ground) at an angle of 74 degrees. If you then drop a vertical line through the axle of the front wheel, it should intersect the ground somewhere behind the line through the steerer -- this is the trail. The trail is further affected by the offset of the fork which is the distance that axle is mounted away from the steerer axis, and this is accomplished on "normal" forks by putting some rake in them. That's the bend you see in Brad's forks.

Now, for your suspension forks something odd is happening. There is no "rake" in the forks because the suspension tubes are straight. But if you hold your forks vertically, you will see that (depending on how you're holding them) the fork blades will be ahead of or behind the steerer (if behind, then your holding the forks backwards :)) This offset performs the same function as the rake in rigid forks, which is to bring the trail closer to, but not, 0". At 0" of trail your handling is razor-sharp, and equally as dangerous.

There is something else that happens with suspension forks and the high roller. Suspension forks are longer from the crown (where the forks meet the steerer) to the axle than rigid forks for the same size wheel. This should have the effect of slackening/lowering your HTA from the "ideal" 74 degrees to 70 degrees or less. In theory, this will make the steering slower and more likely to point in a straight line at speed. I say theory because even though my HTA is a very relaxed 68 degrees, the bike still has pretty quick steering.

The other issue, which I still haven't repaired, is that the chain line is now going to cross the fork crown and without a guide tube the noise is somewhat distracting. And you may have to run the chain inside the V-brake noodle:
http://comreich.ods.org/~reich/highracer/2009-04-13_highroller2.jpg
Without guide tubes, I've managed to split the plastic housing for my brakes, although the steel liner is still intact.

Anyway, hope that long-winded reply helps you out. Front suspension is kind of cool on the High Roller, the only downside really being the additional weight. And for the record, I can't ride my no-hands :)

likebikes
07-13-2009, 08:21 PM
Great report comreich. Lots of good building details and links. You and I both have the same idea about wired in lighting too. I'm going to use a 12V garden flood and an LED tail light and mount a 12V battery behind the seat, I'm thinking 8AHR should be plenty. I'll also put a cigarette lighter plug in so I can charge a cell phone or MP3 player. I really want a fast and comfortable bike so I can do some looong rides, 100 plus miles are my goal. I'm gettin old so I gotta do it now or never.

GregLWB
07-14-2009, 10:24 AM
Great report comreich. Lots of good building details and links. You and I both have the same idea about wired in lighting too. I'm going to use a 12V garden flood and an LED tail light and mount a 12V battery behind the seat, I'm thinking 8AHR should be plenty. I'll also put a cigarette lighter plug in so I can charge a cell phone or MP3 player. I really want a fast and comfortable bike so I can do some looong rides, 100 plus miles are my goal. I'm gettin old so I gotta do it now or never.

A few suggestions on your lighting. I would go with more amp hours on the battery unless you don't ride for very long or aren't going to be commuting with this bike. Also, instead of a Flood pattern use a Spot pattern (no more than 12 degree spread), believe me when you are coming down a hill at speed or if you are going to put an assist on the bike the Spot pattern will throw the light much further ahead. If you buy a driving light (automotive ~$15) set at Walmart or elsewhere and make sure that it takes MR-11 style bulbs you will have attractive housings and the MR-11 plugs, plus most of the wiring to set up your system.

I use this setup on my TourMaster and with a 9.5Ah 12v battery, I can run the wired LED tail light and both 20w Narrow Spot (7 degree spread) head lights for a little over 2 hours. If it isn't foggy and rainy I turn off one head light and can get closer to 4 hours.

I also run a Planet Bike SuperFlash 1W headlight (on the handlebars) and 1/2W taillight (above the taillight).

http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/gdfran0/Picture049.jpg
http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/gdfran0/Picture046.jpg
http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/gdfran0/TourMasterBike/Picture078.jpg
http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/gdfran0/TourMasterBike/Picture088.jpg

Greg

SirJoey
07-14-2009, 12:18 PM
Gotta hand it to ya' Greg.
You did a great job on that bike!


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

GregLWB
07-14-2009, 03:23 PM
Gotta hand it to ya' Greg.
You did a great job on that bike!


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Thanks Joey.

likebikes - When you set yours up I hope you show us pictures. On my HR currently I just use the Planet Bike lights off of the TM. I have mounts on both bikes and just swap the lights when I ride the other. I am thinking of doing something more permanent on the HR and am also toying with the idea of an electric hub motor on it too.

Greg

likebikes
07-14-2009, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the great ideas Greg, I'll check those out. I had already started wondering about the light pattern on garden floods so I appreciate the heads up on them. I definitely want a narrower beam of light.
The 36 volt hub motor I have is real nice. The unfortunate thing I've found is that the weight of it makes it less enjoyable sometimes. I think if I ever do that again, I'll try a cycle bully trailer.

likebikes
07-30-2009, 07:53 PM
Wow, some very nice projects coming to fruition. I want to stick with Brads plans because I want a successful build but I have some ideas that are a slight departure.
I like GregLWB small front wheel. How did you plot your steering head angle? Has that worked out?

Comreich, looks like we have the same front fork. How high are your feet at mid pedal above the seat? I'm following GregLWB in my concern for circulation! Has it been working out ok for you so far?

BadCheese, two questions on your great looking ride, what kind of foam did you use on the seat and what kind of tubing did you decide on for the chain? I want to make sure what I get holds up.

badcheese
07-30-2009, 10:23 PM
The foam I used on the seat is called Ensolite. The local foam shop had a bin of scraps by the front door, and I think I spent about $6. One side is smooth, one side is porous. The smooth side was actually uglier than the porous side, because it was shiny with lots of little bubbles. The porous side had a very uniform matte finish. So I decided to sand off the shiny side to make the spray adhesive stick to it, and glued it with that side down.

The chain tube was half inch black poly irrigation tubing from the hardware store. Cheap stuff, and very common. I don't notice any drag, and the noise is very subtle. Flare the ends by dipping it in boiling water, then pushing something cone-shaped into the end. Some people use more expensive tubing which might have slightly less friction, but it doesn't seem necessary to me.

Good luck, I can't wait to see your build coming along!

badcheese
07-30-2009, 10:38 PM
I just noticed your comment about the Cycle Bully trailer. That's exactly what I'm doing! I built the High Roller first. Now I'm working on a Cycle Bully, and I'll come up with a way to hitch it to the High Roller. That way I can instantly convert the HR between being a practical electric vehicle with cargo space for local transportation, and a (relatively) lightweight pedal-powered bike for recreational/social/fitness rides.

The hitch will require a little inventiveness, and I don't want a heavy trailer on the HR until I'm used to the riding position, but those are small hurdles.

GregLWB
07-31-2009, 12:48 AM
Wow, some very nice projects coming to fruition. I want to stick with Brads plans because I want a successful build but I have some ideas that are a slight departure.
I like GregLWB small front wheel. How did you plot your steering head angle? Has that worked out?

Comreich, looks like we have the same front fork. How high are your feet at mid pedal above the seat? I'm following GregLWB in my concern for circulation! Has it been working out ok for you so far?

BadCheese, two questions on your great looking ride, what kind of foam did you use on the seat and what kind of tubing did you decide on for the chain? I want to make sure what I get holds up.

lb - for the steering angle I followed the optional instructions in the HR plans. Brad had already worked out the angles. If you go to the link I gave you, that is the entire build link for my HR. On mine with the crank arms parallel to the ground my feet are straight out from (level with) my hips.:)

Greg

likebikes
08-02-2009, 09:25 AM
I just noticed your comment about the Cycle Bully trailer. That's exactly what I'm doing! I built the High Roller first. Now I'm working on a Cycle Bully, and I'll come up with a way to hitch it to the High Roller. That way I can instantly convert the HR between being a practical electric vehicle with cargo space for local transportation, and a (relatively) lightweight pedal-powered bike for recreational/social/fitness rides.

The hitch will require a little inventiveness, and I don't want a heavy trailer on the HR until I'm used to the riding position, but those are small hurdles.

One method is to use a universal joint as the part of your hitch for flexibility. It will allow up and down motion as well as lateral movement. I'm also considering some sort of wrist pin arrangement.

comreich
08-02-2009, 10:46 AM
lb, my seat is at 24" and the bottom bracket is at 34" (or so) from the ground. With the miles I've put on, I've not had a circulation problem, but I also don't have to deal with Greg's diabetes. I do have a minor issue with a numb right hand, but that is fairly easy to alleviate by moving my hand around a bit and not gripping the bars so tightly.

likebikes
08-03-2009, 09:31 PM
I'm working out some issues now with all the help, much appreciated!
Probably doing this backwards but I'm working more on the peripherals now than the bike with the exception of the boom, the rest of it seems pretty cut and dry; follow Brads instructions, period!
I'm planning a rack for the back of the bike, I'm going to mount a small plastic ammo box on it for my junque. I also will make some hooks for the nice panniers I have, I did a weeks groceries on my LWB using these and a small trunk bag on the rack. I've bought the cheap $15.99 burners driving lamps, the small chrome ones at Walmart. I put one on my motorcycle as I hate to ride with one headlight, burnouts always happen at night far from home. The other light will be for the HR. I pulled the MR16 50 watt lamp out and ordered a 5 watt 10 degree narrow beam LED lamp for it. That should do the trick. I'll permanantly mount that on the boom or front brake bracket. I plan to run the wiring to a battery behind the seat through the frame to conceal it. An LED talilight on the ammobox will finish off the lighting, also hard wired. As for the boom, since I have a suspension fork on the donor that's taller than a standard fork, I'm planning to experiment with a raptor like nose on the bike. An offset boom perhaps mounted higher than the main tube and angled downward or level to keep my feet at a more comfortable height. I'm not suffering from diabetes but I'm afraid I just won't be comfortable with the bottom bracket much higher than the seat. Don't know how old some of you are but I just turned 53 so I'm mindful of the years and "comfort is king" right? :party:

badcheese
08-04-2009, 12:40 AM
One method is to use a universal joint as the part of your hitch for flexibility. It will allow up and down motion as well as lateral movement. I'm also considering some sort of wrist pin arrangement.

The Cycle Bully plans describe a U-joint hitch made from a pair of bike wheel hubs welded perpendicular to each other. I was thinking about making a simpler U-joint, since the hitch doesn't really need ball bearings. I would use some sort of bushings instead. I have two rear triangles from full-suspension bikes, and I could use both pivots to make a U-joint, but I might want to keep those rear ends for some other project.

How would a wrist pin work?

SirJoey
08-04-2009, 07:54 AM
The Cycle Bully plans describe a U-joint hitch made from a pair of bike wheel hubs welded perpendicular to each other. I've built it. It works really well.

In fact, I've used it for several different applications,
such as 2 different trikes, with the CycleBully, & a kid hauler.


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

likebikes
08-04-2009, 12:45 PM
Hi BC, I hope my terminology is correct, it may not be. What I was thinking when I said wrist pin was actually like this. I was looking at a U shaped block with a pin hinged in the middle of it. The pin would be free to lean forward or back on a pivot at it's base but not lean side to side. The hitch would connect with a sleeve similar to the headset on a bike so it would allow it to move laterally when turning. This way you'd have the motion necessary to corner and negotiate uneven terrain. Probably just threw a million dollar idea into the wind but I haven't done anything with it anyway! If anyone starts to mas manufacture these, I want a free one! :laugh3:

PeterT
08-05-2009, 07:36 AM
For my trailer hitch, I simply welded a bracket tothe end of a bolt, put the bolt through a spacer tube with a washer each end of the tube, and then put that spacer tube through a bigger tube of steel, to allow the bolt 360deg of rotation. This bit is attached to my carrier support bars on my bike.

The join is achieved by drilling two holes in some 40*40mm nylon stock, cut to allow the movement you want, with one hole set back from the other and out by 90deg to each other.

For the secondary part of the hitch, I made a small cage to just fit over the nylon block, and attached that to a goose-neck type bar that attaches to the trailer.

Cost: $$ minimum but tows well and true over any terrain

ps sorry about how dark it is will get better one tommorow during daylight for you

PeterT
08-05-2009, 08:10 AM
Having had my bike fall over many times with the trailer attached, it is a wise decision to encorporate the full 360deg rotational movement in the hitch, as well having 90+deg up/down/left/right movement as it saves you damaging your bike/load

savarin
08-05-2009, 08:40 AM
Anything wrong with a standard ball joint trailer style hitch?
The one I built came from a gas strut from a truck hood.
Gives a lot of movement and has a locking pin.
So far its worked flawlessly but this is on a trike.
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=1861&page=2
at the bottom.
Unsure if its ok for a two wheeler.

badcheese
08-05-2009, 09:12 AM
Anything wrong with a standard ball joint trailer style hitch?

Nothing wrong with that for a trailer with two wheels, but if the trailer has only one wheel you need something amounting to a U-joint so it doesn't fall over on its side.

likebikes
08-05-2009, 12:54 PM
Anything wrong with a standard ball joint trailer style hitch?
The one I built came from a gas strut from a truck hood.
Gives a lot of movement and has a locking pin.
So far its worked flawlessly but this is on a trike.
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=1861&page=2
at the bottom.
Unsure if its ok for a two wheeler.

Awesome looking rig Savarin. I'm going to have to read that thread now, you've peaked my interest. We should have clarified that we were referring to a one wheel trailer.
I think I'm going to weld tabs for the hitch into the frame of the Hi Roller before I paint it so I don't have to mess it up later.

likebikes
08-08-2009, 03:18 AM
Followed Gregs lead on the light, it came out nice, just a small problem. I chose the inexpensive Walmart auto lights in the little chrome housings that contain MR-16 style lamps. I chose them because I can convert them to LED and save juice. I put one on the MC and the other I ordered an LED lamp for. The LED arrived, a 5 watt model and it is real nice and bright. It's supposed to be a 10 degree spread but it looks more diffuced than that, still, nice light for a bike. The problem is that it's just a tiny bit longer than the standard halogen that came in the housing so the housing won't close. The ring that retains the lamp just won't quite lock down. I'll work on this!
I also have my doner ready for surgery, poor thing!
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/BikeLight003.jpg
Nice light, will be easy to mount, light weight and nice appearance

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/BikeLight001.jpg
LED lamp sitting in housing

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/BikeLight004.jpg
Lights up dingy work area nicely

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Doner001.jpg
Ready for surgery

likebikes
08-16-2009, 08:54 PM
I've continued my work on getting components for this project. I ordered a three ring Shimano crank off E Bay for the HR since my doner has only a single ring crank. The Shimano is a lower end but I hope adequate for my tasks unit. It is a 48T on the big ring because I wanted a road bike gearing with 170 mm alloy crank arms. The seller had 42T sets but I believe this gearing will be better. I have a 7 speed cassette on the rear and this is supposed to be compatible with it. I would have preferred a 50 or more tooth set up but this came at a good price.

graucho
08-17-2009, 12:09 AM
Hello likebikes.
I had to laugh at you doner bike down there shuttering in fear down in the bellows of your shop. I cant wait to see your bike come together.

Also...
Thanks for inviting me to the MNHPVA meeting. I wasn't sure what to expect but I know i'll be back again. The knowledge there was very broad with many members having 25 years or more of bike building experience. Many guys there who are willing to share, also listen themselves. =Fun.

likebikes
08-18-2009, 06:22 AM
Thanks Graucho, it was great meeting you as well. I enjoyed seeing your workmanship. It's nice to get to meet the folks behind the posts, it's just about impossible to meet many of them because of distances but there's no reason not to make a point to get together with the close ones.
I'm looking forward to seeing more recumbents and practical machines come out of the HPVA group, I'm going to have to produce something with some real quality on this next project or I won't want to show it down there. Looking forward to your next entry. I see the frame is pretty recumbent in the seat to pedal relationship.

likebikes
10-14-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm getting the bike started and I'm not likely to have as clean of chain lines as Brad has on his version because I'm trying to bring my feet down a little. That problem could be solved a lot easier by going to a 20" front wheel but I stubbornly cling to the 26" front. My question is, if I go with the 26" wheel and I drop the boom a little to keep my feet out of the sky, how close can I place a chain idler to the front derailler before it begins to affect shifting? I'm thinking I will want an idler right near or on the steering head but I don't want to foul up the shifting.

fultondp
10-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Richie Rich and Sir Joey have documented a sliding pulley mount that eliminates the problem by allowing the pulley to move horizontally along a bolt shaft instead of binding up. Do a search on "sliding idler" and you'll find pictures. I'd still keep the idler at least a foot away from the gearing, just to be on the safe side.

Darren

likebikes
10-14-2009, 04:46 PM
Thanks Darren, found and it is a nicer way than I was doing it. I was worried about the same thing on my LWB so I approached it like this. You'll notice the chain keeper I had to install to make it work. The plastic tube was the latest upgrade and it improved it again, but then my front derailler broke and my cassette was already worn out...

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/14Oct2009002.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/14Oct2009001.jpg

likebikes
11-30-2009, 07:38 AM
I've finally gotten this High Roller rolling!
I began by building a faulty rear section, the forks were off by ever so little but the result was an awfully eliptical looking rear wheel. So, I tossed the first attempt and after much prayer and procrastination and a lot of waffling I took off again. I made a very simple jig and was able to weld the rear legs to the main beam nice and straight. I then added the rear drop outs and tack welded the neck in place. Of course, I just had to add handlebars and wheels and have a look, and a sit!
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Newbikeproject008.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Newbikeproject011.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Newbikeproject009.jpg
The front end came from a kids Moto Bike that had a steel frame, suspension and a disc brake, an irrestible combination. The suspension may be a little on the light side but it will keep the front wheel in contact with the ground in bumps anyway.
Next, I need to relocate the rear brake posts and then set up the rear triangle and the pedal boom.

likebikes
12-05-2009, 09:01 PM
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/p_00007.jpg

Brake post alignment came out well. I found a fiberglass seat on E bay and I'm waiting for it to come in. As soon as it arrives I'll get the rear triangle figured out and then the pedal boom.

likebikes
12-21-2009, 06:20 PM
Working on the bike and making some decent headway. I'm in need of a little advice. One of the things that was wrong with my LWB was the angle of the seat post in regards to the bottom bracket and deraillure. I have the plans for the high roller but I've built mine off plan with a drooping nose section to keep my feet down. So, now I'm ready to make the bottom bracket and clamp assembly and I don't know what angle to weld it at. The deraillure says 60 to 66 degrees on it but I don't know where to draw the baseline, as level or with the chain line which will be sloping toward the back of the bike.
I could use a pointer if someone is out there!
Thanks

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectnosesection001.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectnosesection002.jpg

likebikes
12-21-2009, 06:40 PM
Here's another view of the angle of the pedal boom.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectnosesection006.jpg

fultondp
12-21-2009, 07:06 PM
You want it relative to the chain line, so as the BB moves up, the derailleur mounting post tilts further back. Have you checked your boom position for heel strike? Unless you have very long legs, it looks to me like you might get some interference.

Darren

Danner
12-21-2009, 10:26 PM
That frame is looking straight as an arrow! Nice work.

One time I checked the BB derailler tube angle in the Street Fighter plans (Der tube @ 56deg), and the Delta Wolf & Kyoto Cruiser (@ 67 deg). From what I could tell, the main reason for the difference was the drive chain angles. Expanding on what Darren was saying, the derailler cage needs to be positioned for the angle of the drive chain, so that dictates the angle of the derailler tube. If the drive chain is at a steeper angle, then the der tube will need to be leaning back farther. I found that the angle has some leeway as long as the chain doesn't hit the cross pin at the back of the cage when it's on the small chainring. But this is hard to check until it's mounted, and then it's kinda late to change it!

I don't have the HR plans, but since your nose section is different, I would take Brad's angle and translate it to an angle compared to horizontal - then work backwards into your design to get the angle compared to your nose section, as a starting point. Then adjust a little if you think your drive chain angle is different than Brad's. Just keep the cage opening and the chain angle in mind when you compare your plans with Brad's.

Hope that helps -
Danner

PeterT
12-21-2009, 11:05 PM
If you use a DF for reference, the front der tube is measured in degrees from the rear wheel towards the front wheel. Eg. A 56deg means the der tube is 14deg off of perpendicular, relative to the chanline running from centre front to centre rear sprockets.

To set up your der tube, use a stringline where centre to centre will be, or centre to chain idler pulley and then calculate your der tube off of that string line.

PeterT

savarin
12-22-2009, 03:39 AM
A trick I saw on a tailwind was to weld a 3mm tab on the bottom of the der post and weld that tab to the bottom bracket.
It could then be bent into the correct alignment.
It worked very well as there is no stress on that post.

likebikes
12-22-2009, 06:35 AM
Thanks all for the advice! I really appreciate this forum. I'm going to study what you've all given me and set it up, based on the chain line. I do have a small amount of heel to wheel interference but it should only occur at low speed sharp turns so I should be ok for the most part. My legs aren't quite long enough to reach past the wheel and unfortunately, with long legs comes big feet. Still, I need to keep them down for circulation. I put pedal extenders on the crank arms so it helps a bit.
Danner, the first attempt wasn't quite as straight, this is a distinct improvement. I spend more time on that stool consulting with my chief engineer :wings: than I do working! :)
The seat arrived, a little old and shelf worn but unused. I can live with a few scratches, but drilling holes in it was no fun at all. I built a steel rack out of tubing for the rear and I had to toss the luggage on it for a look, I suppose everyone does that!

likebikes
12-22-2009, 06:50 AM
A trick I saw on a tailwind was to weld a 3mm tab on the bottom of the der post and weld that tab to the bottom bracket.
It could then be bent into the correct alignment.
It worked very well as there is no stress on that post.

I see what you're saying, the post is then adjustable. I'll try that on my LWB since I thought there was nothing short of major surgery that would save it. I hadn't found this site and I built it with the bottom bracket housing welded into a relief I cut into the frame, no adjustment or going back. It would never shift well since the post is too vertical. That should help as I hadn't considered that there wasn't much stress on the tube, I'd never wanted to cut it off.

dynodon
12-26-2009, 05:30 PM
I really like the dropped crank looks really nice gets the cranks out of your feild of view I think I'll build one like that some day. I be watching and taking notes!!!

likebikes
12-27-2009, 10:27 AM
I really like the dropped crank looks really nice gets the cranks out of your feild of view I think I'll build one like that some day. I be watching and taking notes!!!

I've checked out the alignment and I'm getting ready to make my bottom bracket assembly.
The two things that make this work is that my X seam gets me far enough out there but maybe not quite far enough. There are pedal extenders that move the pedals further from the crank arms which I never knew about until recently. They move the pedals about an inch further from the center-line and help prevent any hard contact between rotating parts (crank arms and wheels). My heel can contact the tire but only in low speed sharp turns.

Danner
12-27-2009, 05:10 PM
I've never used the pedal extenders but I've heard they can have an impact on the knee joints. I don't know if it would be a good thing or a bad thing in your case, but you might want to check it. Maybe someone else has experience?

likebikes
12-27-2009, 11:35 PM
In my case, the pedal extenders seem to put my feet the right distance apart, both comfort wise as well as for the construction of my front end. I don't think this bike would work well with out them. Sorry I got in the picture there :jester: but it helps to show the fit. I have some 4.5" high rise handlebars coming to give a little more knee clearance and I'm still studying my chain line which will need 2 idlers to run the drive side. The return run will use a tube to clear the front fork. So far, I'm pretty happy with it although I wish I were a faster builder.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/IMG_0696.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/IMG_0695.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/IMG_0697.jpg

Danner
12-28-2009, 12:08 AM
We ALL wish we were faster builders!

graucho
12-28-2009, 12:20 AM
Hey likebikes... Looks like a great fit! Coming along nicely. Your shop area looks like some fine space also. See ya around buddy. :-)

dynodon
12-28-2009, 10:12 AM
Looks great to me......Its got about the same geometry as some of the muffler pipe bikes I've seen. I think you have a winner on your hands,fast and comfortable.

likebikes
12-28-2009, 11:06 PM
We ALL wish we were faster builders!
I don't know why I'm in a hurry, there isn't any place to ride up here in winter wonderland anyway!:jester:


Hey likebikes... Looks like a great fit! Coming along nicely. Your shop area looks like some fine space also. See ya around buddy. :-)
It's probably just like Sir Joeys bus except underground.


Looks great to me......Its got about the same geometry as some of the muffler pipe bikes I've seen. I think you have a winner on your hands,fast and comfortable.
Thanks, it's comfortable, fast would be nice too! I have a 48 tooth top sprocket on this where I have a 53 on my LWB. I couldn't maintain the 53 for any long period of time so I'm hoping the 48 will be more to my liking. This bike will be lighter though so who knows, I could out run the 48 if I'm still progressing.

I have the taller handlebars on it now so the knees banging the handlebars are a thing of the past.

dynodon
12-29-2009, 10:21 AM
I think with some high psi smoothies it should be real fast. I've always had better luck with a smaller front sproket and being able to maintain a higher pedal rpm to keep a better average speed.

likebikes
01-03-2010, 07:42 PM
I'm still waiting for an idler pulley I ordered so I can run my chain so I worked on a few peripherals this weekend. I finish welded the bottom bracket assy and made a place on top of it to mount my 5 watt LED headlamp.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectseatkickstandlight013.jpg

I also lengthened the kickstand I found and tried it out.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectseatkickstandlight008.jpg

Then I made a cover for the cushion for my seat. I was originally going to use cotton duck or something like that when I found what I think was an excellent alternative.
The material is automotive trunk carpeting made 100% from re-cycled pop bottles. It was easy to sew, I selected an artificial thread and a fat needle. It is supposed to resist rot, UV and won't unravel. It's a short nap and when held up to the light, you can see through it.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectseatkickstandlight003.jpg

I have a lower center in the seat so I punched 2 " holes in the padding to increase ventilation through the foam padding. I believe the seat will be cool and comfortable.
The material has the added feature that it is like the loop side of velcro so I can just put velcro hook on the fiberglass seat and the upholstered pad will stay put.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectseatkickstandlight005.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectseatkickstandlight006.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/NewBikeProjectseatkickstandlight007.jpg

Danner
01-03-2010, 09:27 PM
Lookin' good! I like the trunk lining material, sounds like a good approach, let us know if it works out for you.

likebikes
01-11-2010, 01:42 PM
Wondering if any high roller builders have had any issues with the boom or nose piece that the pedals are mounted on? I was sitting on my still incomplete HR the other night, feet on the pedals, rear wheel on the training stand, fantasizing about launch day in a month or two when I noticed that even without a chain or any drive torque being applied, there was a certain amount of flex going on in front of the steering neck when I rotated the pedals. I'm not the best welder so I'm concerned about the possibility of a catastrophic failure happening up there. Is there much twisting force being exerted by real world pedalling or am I concerned over nothing?
Just as an additional point, I'll be using clipless pedals and Shamano SPD cleats so I'll be pulling as well as pushing the crank.

Radical Brad
01-11-2010, 07:40 PM
You should be ok if the welds have good penetration. Your front boom is no longer part of the integral frame because you mounted it higher on the head tube (above the main frame boom). The reason I did not do this is because that will cause all stress to be carried by the head tube shell alone. You may want to place it lower so that the square tubing walls become a single unit again of you find it flexes too much.

Another option would be a triangular section of square tube under the boom to create a good gusset.

Brad

james folkes
01-11-2010, 07:48 PM
given that your frame is as unique as it is, i suppose it might be structurally a bit different from the more conventional straight boomed high roller. looking at you sat in your machine i couldn't help but question the high bottom bracket on my own build, tempting me to see if i can't tweak my front boom down a little bit. i have long legs, this might help keep cranks away from wheel a bit, but what with that hard interference business i'm not sure if i'll get away with it.

from your description that does seem like a slightly worrying amount of flex, whilst i did have a gander at my friend's recently rebuilt nitanium framed orbit 26" tourer and was blown away by how bendy you can make a bicycle frame and it be a good thing (that nitanium's funny stuff!), i see why you might want to do something about it. how about two triangular braces between each boom and the head tube? if the flex is coming from some form of twist in the head tube perhaps this stiffening would effectively continue the original structure more as per the original. you could even cap them to really iron out any play. this would look the don, particularly if the front set continued the line for the main boom, thinking about it you could make the braces from sections of boom material off-cut, so it could be easy to make the boom look like it is flared naturally to fit.

cor blimey that's pimp... gives me goose pimples thinking about it.

james.

likebikes
01-12-2010, 01:40 PM
You should be ok if the welds have good penetration. Your front boom is no longer part of the integral frame because you mounted it higher on the head tube (above the main frame boom). The reason I did not do this is because that will cause all stress to be carried by the head tube shell alone. You may want to place it lower so that the square tubing walls become a single unit again of you find it flexes too much.

Another option would be a triangular section of square tube under the boom to create a good gusset.

Brad

Thanks Brad, I haven't had a weld come apart yet but I worry none the less. I'll go with a small gusset under the front as you suggest.
Your welds are much nicer than mine, thank goodness for the angle grinder!

likebikes
01-12-2010, 01:48 PM
but what with that hard interference business i'm not sure if i'll get away with it.
james.

James, thanks for the ideas. As for your concerns about hard interference, it all depends.
I measured my x-seam as they call it and laid everything out first and it looked like I had a good shot at making this work. I tack welded the boom in position and found I had a small amount of interference. I then ordered some pedal extenders and I now have interference at sharp turns only (low speed manuevering) and if I lift my heel slightly, none at all. There isn't any crank arm contact at all which was the greatest concern.

likebikes
01-24-2010, 09:56 PM
I've set it up again to run cables. The rear brake is done, I'm going to weld on a couple cable guides for the rear derailler next. I don't think the front derailler or brake will need any welded guides so that should be easy enough. The gusset is in place as Brad suggested and there is no more wiggle up front, solid as a rock. I'll have an opportunity to ride it provided it's finished at the MNHPVA meeting in Feb since the roads are so nasty currently in Mn, the HPVA meet is being held in a members warehouse. I've purchased some NIMH batteries that I'm planning to slip into the vertical tube behind the seat and enclose for my 12V electrical system. Then I'll weld everything up, probably by next weekend and then it's time to paint!!!


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/Cabling.jpg

Radical Brad
01-24-2010, 10:01 PM
It's coming along nicely now!

Might I make one suggestion?....
Reverse the idlers so the larger one is up front as it will be seeing most of the force.

Hope to see it painted soon.

Brad

likebikes
01-25-2010, 07:12 AM
It's coming along nicely now!

Might I make one suggestion?....
Reverse the idlers so the larger one is up front as it will be seeing most of the force.

Brad

Good point, the rear idler is much heavier. The reason it was selected for the rear was it has a nice rim around it which will help it to retain the chain. The problem in reversing them is that the length of the bracket it's mounted on is too short and the chain would be able to scrub the rear brakes, so I may just get another big one for the front. The little one has held up well on the LWB though. The chain angle is steeper on this bike though, so the stress may be greater.


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/bicycle/14Oct2009002.jpg

John Lewis
01-25-2010, 10:37 AM
James, thanks for the ideas. As for your concerns about hard interference, it all depends.
I measured my x-seam as they call it and laid everything out first and it looked like I had a good shot at making this work. I tack welded the boom in position and found I had a small amount of interference. I then ordered some pedal extenders and I now have interference at sharp turns only (low speed manuevering) and if I lift my heel slightly, none at all. There isn't any crank arm contact at all which was the greatest concern.

Bobbing in here a bit late but here goes. Heel strike is not considered hard interference. Many SWB's including mine suffer from it. I found I quickly adapted and I don't notice it at all now and no get heel strike . Must admit it worried me the first few rides and I fell once or twice from it. It is only a problem at very low speeds because you normally don't turn the wheel much at speed.

Hard strike where the pedal or the crank can contact the tire is an entirely different matter and not to be tolerated although there is at least one commercial bike (the NoComm) that seems as if it has it from looking at pictures.

John Lewis

likebikes
01-25-2010, 11:09 PM
You're correct John, there was not hard interference, just soft interference- meat and bone covered by faux leather.
I agree, we can live with that as long as the soft parts don't get too tangled up in the works.:jester:

likebikes
02-06-2010, 11:56 PM
99% finished. I have two issues and one small project left to finish.
Issue one, the rear brakes. I don't have alignment problems, I have spring problems. I dislike the fact that all the springs are wound in the same direction and leave me with one brake that rebounds well and the other doesn't or I get a sprung spring. Any help in this area would be appreciated.
Second, something that I'm going to have to resolve next year is my paint job. I used Rustoleum Professional on my first bike and the finish held up very well but I used Valspar tractor and implement paint on this bike because I liked the green they had. This paint is so wimpy you can scrape it off with a thumb nail, avoid it.
Third item is the electrical system which I hope to have finished before Wednesday as that is the HPVA meeting where I will show and be able to ride as this meeting is being held in a large empty warehouse, Whoopee!!! :)
Now the pics;
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/ItsGREEN001.jpg
The ammo box is my trunk.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/ItsGREEN004.jpg
These are the 2700 Mah NIMH batteries for the 12V electrical system, I'm waiting for a connector I need before assembling the battery pack. The box will be covered by a plastic or aluminum cover and have a solar panel on top, hence the theme "The Green Machine"
This has been a fun if not slow project, a couple of issues but overall, I'm pretty happy. She rides and goes thru the gears on the training stand well so I'm hoping for a successful ride at the warehouse Wednesday. The road in front of my house and just about everywhere else around here is snowy and icey so I don't really have any options, just be patient.

graucho
02-07-2010, 12:33 AM
likebikes... It looks like that seat is going to fit me perfect at the wednesday meeting. HeHe.
Looks like a very sweet ride! I think i'll bring my last chopper along so all of the guys can ride
it also. I can't wait to see your ride. Maybe we can figure out your brake problem. See you there.

james folkes
02-07-2010, 08:48 AM
wimpy tractor paint? a shame as it is a lovely colour... nearly as nice as the olive drab of your ammo box, i have long held a soft spot for that shade and tone. talking of, i see that although the external dimensions look the same as the uk military 7.62 belt fed cases, yours have that rather nice dip in the lid which you have put to excellent use. that's a really tidy solution, are you using a dynamo and charging circuit, or is the battery pack supposed to be charged between rides?

well done on the self restraint. i've been riding to work in the snow and ice on my mountain bike and falling off lots. on the one hand, i'm getting quite good at falling off without doing myself too much mischief, on the other it does make me very wary of taking the 'bent out in comparable conditions. i'll bet it's nice having the trainer thingy as you can get a pretty accurate feel to what real life riding is going to feel like.

i look forward to the results from your hpv meet.

james.

likebikes
02-07-2010, 05:25 PM
Thanks James, snow and ice doesn't stop Minnesotans either so you'd find yourself in a lot of good company here. As for me, it isn't just the paint that's wimpy! :wheelchair: I don't like to take the kinds of spills that you're talking about anymore! :)
I found the handle inset on top of the box to be undesirable until I hit upon the idea of using it as a battery box. The switch is now mounted thru the side just below where it's sitting so all the wiring will be concealed. I just need to find something presentable to cover it with and all will be good.
The plan is to charge between rides as I don't believe I'll be doing enough night riding with this bike any time soon to need onboard charging. Once I move I'll be doing more night and winter riding so I'll be using more electricity. Currently, I live out in a rural area NW of Minneapolis so traveling at night on these roads will get you killed. Pickup trucks doing highspeed runs to the liquire store are a major health hazard to cyclists.

likebikes
02-09-2010, 09:59 PM
I have a problem I didn't anticipate that may send my project back to the drawing board, (pun not intended) The front forks I took from a child sized motobike have way too much flex for safe riding. I haven't had this bike outside to test ride due to the icey conditions but in a series of short blasts across my basement followed by a quick stop with the nice and powerful disc brake, I have discovered that my front forks flex a great deal, they actually flex back more than an inch which I believe is unacceptable. How they will handle curves, bumps and other daily rigors of riding is anybodies guess but I'm not at all confident in them now. I'd like to find another 20 inch fork but I realized that the clearance between my crank arms and front wheel will disappear so I'm going looking for a 24" fork that has a compatible bearing arrangement with my current steering neck. I just can't imagine sawing off the current front end and re building it. I am considering ways to reinforce the front end so if that could be done, it may save the project but for the moment, it looks like a major error in judgement on my part.

graucho
02-10-2010, 12:56 AM
Hi buddy I just chopped up a 24" mountain bike front end. I'll bring it to tomorrow's meeting to see if you can use it. Complete with rim, tire, brake's, suspension. Take a look, you can have it.

likebikes
02-10-2010, 07:20 AM
DUDE!!! :punk:

likebikes
02-11-2010, 09:23 PM
My ultra flexi front forks may be repairable but that isn't necessary as my buddy Graucho has come thru big time. The disc brake on my old fork was great but the springs were too weak and compressed too much under my weight and the overall construction was a little light. I now have a suspension fork from a 24" bike (courtesy of chopper artist Graucho) that has springs much more suitable for my weight and good brakes as well, providing a little more heel to wheel clearance without elevating my feet to precarious heights. I could actually use the 24" wheel and still have no hard clearance but the heel to wheel strike might be annoying, so the plan now is to move the horse shoe and brake posts down to align the brakes with my other 20" front wheel which is a healthy 48 spoke wheel. I'll have a much stronger front end so I'm confident this is going to work real well. In picture #2, the wheel is turned over to it's closest position relative to the crank arm.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/newfork001.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/newfork002.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/newfork003.jpg

likebikes
02-11-2010, 10:00 PM
Duh, you can't move them after you post them... :rolleyes4:


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/newfork001.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/newfork002.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/newfork003.jpg

graucho
02-11-2010, 10:44 PM
I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy HaHa I'm happy its going to work out! Get out the green paint again.....graucho

likebikes
03-07-2010, 08:49 PM
I will never name a thread, my project is still on the drawing board again!!
My ride is at long last finished.
I worked on it Saturday the 6th and was able to get quite a bit done. I've been terribly lazy but I'm happy with the end result. One last thing to do and that is to get my solar panel mounted on the electrical box, and the "Green Machine" will be all trimmed out.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Finishedbike010.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Finishedbike016.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Finishedbike013.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Finishedbike017.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Finishedbike020.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/courtnek100/High%20Roller/Finishedbike023.jpg

I have a 12V electrical system which I'm able to charge the lighting and with a single plug coming out of the top of the tail box. The solar panel will be plugged in ath that point when on the road. I don't know what the weight of this is but I may put it on the digital scale Wednesday when I take it with me, Wednesday night is the HPVA meeting.
Thanks for all the help, next winter, it will be a Tadpole!

savarin
03-07-2010, 09:03 PM
A very clean machine.
Nice one.

graucho
03-11-2010, 11:37 AM
Great bike likebikes! I cant wait to see it in person and take it for a ride at the HPVA meeting.
I'm excited to see your lighting system also. How is the front suspension?

likebikes
03-17-2010, 01:27 PM
The front suspension is great. I'm sorry I missed the question in your post, it has plenty of spring for me at 180 lbs. I'm nearly finished with my bike rack so I'll definately have her at the April HPVA meet. The bike rides and handles great, I guess I hit it right this time. My first bent, (my avatar) had a couple engineering issues that made it heavy and poor handling but it rode ok. This one is better in every respect. It's a great climber as well as it has a really big number one sprocket on the rear cassette. I have my solar panel mounted on my battery boc now so it is 100% finished now. It's been raining and so I haven't put a lot of miles on it yet but spring is here.

John Lewis
03-18-2010, 08:14 AM
Nicely done, It looks great.

John Lewis

james folkes
03-19-2010, 02:58 PM
i have to confess to having kind of turned my nose up at your kids suspension fork and tiny wheel...

not any more though! after a commuting my high roller for a week i've ripped the thing to bits to start again, expect the next interpretation to bear a more than passing resemblance to your beautiful machine.

jolly well done, i'll bet you're thoroughly stoked with your endeavours!

james.

likebikes
03-21-2010, 07:44 PM
Thanks James. I agree with you that the small front wheel is less tham optimal but I knew that the circulation in my 53 year old feet wouldn't cut it. I was really more intent on a touring machine that a speedster anyway so this worked well for me.
This is my second home built recumbent bike, my first had some issues, so don't get discouraged. My second was a great improvement, so enjoy this one and get ready for the next. This is an addictive hobby!
Kevin

likebikes
04-14-2010, 01:02 PM
I'll be showing my Green Machine at the Minnesota Human Powered Vehicle Association meeting tonight.
Graucho, you may be the only one in range, hope you are there tonight!

A note to the rest of you;
Progress report, the bike is great but getting used to a High Roller AND SPD foot clips has produced a couple of very embarrassing "get offs" but fortunately no injuries. I'll get the hang of these things yet!!! :jester:

graucho
04-14-2010, 03:14 PM
I'll be showing my Green Machine at the Minnesota Human Powered Vehicle Association meeting tonight.
Graucho, you may be the only one in range, hope you are there tonight!

A note to the rest of you;
Progress report, the bike is great but getting used to a High Roller AND SPD foot clips has produced a couple of very embarrassing "get offs" but fortunately no injuries. I'll get the hang of these things yet!!! :jester:

Good, HeHe... then I wont feel so bad if I have a stumbled start if I try It out.

graucho
04-14-2010, 11:38 PM
Below is a photo at the MHPVA meeting tonight with likebikes talking about his great build in front of about 25 people. I got to take this baby for a spin and I do have to say it rides like a dream. Seeing it in person it's obvious he has put a lot of thought into this build. Its was a pleasure riding it and it's always great talking to fellow members in person. Thanks likebikes for the chance to take a ride.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll13/grauchosbikes/IMG_0218.jpg

likebikes
10-11-2010, 07:31 AM
I have been happy with the bike, it's a little heavy but rides great. I was going to lighten it up a little for the last couple rides this year just to see if I can make a difference, so I began to remove my lighting system and I found that the batteries have actually been overcharged by my pee wee solar panel!

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa411/courtnek1001/IMG_1078.jpg

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa411/courtnek1001/IMG_1079.jpg

Now I know why the charger came with the little thermo probe. Unfortunately I wasn't using it, the solar panel did a great job. So, all those days I was riding in the sun and enjoying the idea that I was topping up my batteries for the next night ride, I was frying them! I had no idea that little panel could do this.
When I touched the connection in the second pic, it disintergrated. The lights still worked?! I'm amazed! :sunny:

mausball
10-11-2010, 01:23 PM
That leaking electrolyte is nasty stuff too. Get thee a solar charge controller!

greenevegiebeast
10-11-2010, 03:52 PM
do you have any kind of charge controler

likebikes
10-11-2010, 08:16 PM
No charge controller on this system. I never imagined that a $15.00 panel could generate enough juice. I guess I know better now!

likebikes
12-13-2010, 02:34 PM
I had the summer to enjoy this bike but it is just too heavy. After a lot of consideration on what I wanted, I've firmly decided to rebuild this machine in Chriome moly. I'm starting research on the correct thickness of tubing required and will gratefully accept any suggestions. I'm thinking .058 may be heavy enough and at just over 1 lb per foot, it should be a lot lighter than this lady. I'm going to strip this bike down to the frame and begin by weighing the frame and calculating what the replacement will weigh and go from there. If all goes well, the new bike should look exactly like this one. I will need to re-learn gas brazing as I know my MIG won't do it with ChroMo. I will also try to locate some lighter idlers but everything else will hopefully transfer.



Below is a photo at the MHPVA meeting tonight with likebikes talking about his great build in front of about 25 people. I got to take this baby for a spin and I do have to say it rides like a dream. Seeing it in person it's obvious he has put a lot of thought into this build. Its was a pleasure riding it and it's always great talking to fellow members in person. Thanks likebikes for the chance to take a ride.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll13/grauchosbikes/IMG_0218.jpg

likebikes
12-13-2010, 09:13 PM
I found the answer to my question and right where I should have looked in the first place, thanks again Mark Stonich!

http://mnhpva.org/tech/tubes_mark.html