PDA

View Full Version : 20/26" high roller



sundug
03-01-2009, 08:23 PM
I want to build a high roller with a 20 " front wheel, and a 26" rear wheel. Can anyone give me an idea what the steering head angle should be? Thanks, Sundug

GregLWB
03-01-2009, 08:30 PM
I want to build a high roller with a 20 " front wheel, and a 26" rear wheel. Can anyone give me an idea what the steering head angle should be? Thanks, Sundug

Hi sundug,

I am doing the same thing and in the HR plans Brad gives 73 degrees for the head tube angle. See my start on the HR thread "I'm actually building one!".

Greg

sundug
03-01-2009, 08:33 PM
Is that 73* from horizontal, main tube, or what? Thanks, Sundug

GregLWB
03-01-2009, 08:38 PM
Is that 73* from horizontal, main tube, or what? Thanks, Sundug

Straight line through the head tube to the front of where the tire meets the ground. There is a really clear explanation and drawing of this on page 15 of Brad's plan

Greg

comreich
03-05-2009, 10:12 PM
I was thinking of doing the same thing, so I went to the source. My LBS has a Bacchetta Cafe with 26/20 wheels so I took my angle finder along. The head tube is laid back to approximately 80 degrees from the main tube. So, if your main tube is horizontal, the top of the head tube is tilted back by 10 degrees toward the back. Now the Cafe also has a bent main tube, but measurements on the pictures of the other Bacchettas yielded the same angle.

sundug
03-31-2009, 09:05 AM
Thanks, can anyone give me a measurement for the main frame tube, from the rear 26" axle to the steering head tube? Doug

GregLWB
03-31-2009, 09:41 AM
Thanks, can anyone give me a measurement for the main frame tube, from the rear 26" axle to the steering head tube? Doug

I will measure mine tonight when I get home, but it probably won't help you much. Due to my height mine is probably a little longer than most. Do you have the plans? This was my first build and the plans were really clear and helpful. I think I read them through 5 or 6 times before I started the bike.:)

I will post a measure for you this evening.

Greg

comreich
03-31-2009, 09:50 AM
Sundug, the distance is going to depend a little bit on the forks you use for the rear end, but I suspect that it's going to come out to around 44-45" from axle to head tube. Brad's measurement starts at 30" for the main tube from the hind end to the middle of the head tube, and then you tack on ~14" for the rear forks and another 1/2" or so for the dropouts. None of Bacchetta, Volae or Rans provide the measurements for the main tube on their bikes, but I suspect the butt of the tube to the centre of the head tube is around the 30" mark like in Brad's plans.

I only wish when I had built mine that I had gone with the Volae (http://www.volaerecumenbents.com) style and dropped the head tube more than 3/4" below the main tube. That would have made the chain run a little easier over my suspension forks.

BTW, the other measurement that will be important is the boom length, and this is what, at least for Bacchetta's, distinguishes the frame sizes.
http://www.bacchettabikes.com/support/fitting.htm

GregLWB
03-31-2009, 10:00 AM
I only wish when I had built mine that I had gone with the Volae (http://www.volaerecumenbents.com) style and dropped the head tube more than 3/4" below the main tube. That would have made the chain run a little easier over my suspension forks.

I agree even without suspension forks that would have given better chain clearance on mine too.:jester:

Greg

Odd Man Out
03-31-2009, 10:46 AM
Hello all
I am wondering if giving specific measurements found in the plans out over the forum is fair to Brad and Kat. With enough of them and all the other info that we have provided, a person will not need to buy the plans... I am all for helping people but not when it will take food off Brad and Kat's table. I propose that we should refer to the specific page where the measurement can be found and assume the person asking the question has the plans and will be able to find it. If not, then they need to buy the plans. Just my zwei phennigs. OMO

trikeman
03-31-2009, 11:09 AM
Hello all
I am wondering if giving specific measurements found in the plans out over the forum is fair to Brad and Kat. With enough of them and all the other info that we have provided, a person will not need to buy the plans... I am all for helping people but not when it will take food off Brad and Kat's table. I propose that we should refer to the specific page where the measurement can be found and assume the person asking the question has the plans and will be able to find it. If not, then they need to buy the plans. Just my zwei phennigs. OMO


I have the same concerns, and have given just page numbers and Figure numbers before for that reason. On the other hand, it is sometimes a close call as to whether we should give a measurement that the OP could have gotten very simply by laying a ruler on a profile shot of the bike in question from a public domain picture (such as in an advertisement etc). I have given a few of those public domain ruler measurements myself, but increasingly feel that telling people how to use a ruler, or just buying the plans is better (teach a man to fish).

Greenhorn
03-31-2009, 11:21 AM
Hello all
I am wondering if giving specific measurements found in the plans out over the forum is fair to Brad and Kat. With enough of them and all the other info that we have provided, a person will not need to buy the plans... I am all for helping people but not when it will take food off Brad and Kat's table. I propose that we should refer to the specific page where the measurement can be found and assume the person asking the question has the plans and will be able to find it. If not, then they need to buy the plans. Just my zwei phennigs. OMO

I agree. It is one thing to provide helpful advice to someone who has purchased the plans and answer measurement questions involved in modifying the build, etc., but I do not think we should be setting out the plans in full. Brad and Kat obvioulsy did a lot of work to make these plans, and they only cost $15 after all.

GregLWB
03-31-2009, 11:29 AM
Hello all
I am wondering if giving specific measurements found in the plans out over the forum is fair to Brad and Kat. With enough of them and all the other info that we have provided, a person will not need to buy the plans... I am all for helping people but not when it will take food off Brad and Kat's table. I propose that we should refer to the specific page where the measurement can be found and assume the person asking the question has the plans and will be able to find it. If not, then they need to buy the plans. Just my zwei phennigs. OMO

I agree with you. That is why I asked if he had the plans and have given page numbers as well in the past. I purchased plans for the LWB (non AZ)bike that I ride from another designer and didn't get anywhere near the quality and wealth of knowledge that I get from AZ plans. Besides that other plans cost far more than AZ charges and I think we are getting a bargain ( and I have purchased 3 sets of plans and the Evil Genius book).:)

Greg

Odd Man Out
03-31-2009, 12:47 PM
I hate to do this but...
A recumbent with a large rear wheel and a small front wheel with a short wheel base is correctly called a SWB or short wheel based recumbent and not a high roller or high racer. I know, picky picky but correct is correct. Sorry for my **** retentiveness (now, did I give you a big enough opening or what !?!?!).

GregLWB
03-31-2009, 12:50 PM
I hate to do this but...
A recumbent with a large rear wheel and a small front wheel with a short wheel base is correctly called a SWB or short wheel based recumbent and not a high roller or high racer. I know, picky picky but correct is correct. Sorry for my **** retentiveness (now, did I give you a big enough opening or what !?!?!).


As Ed McMahan used to tell Johnny Carson - You are Correct!:jester:

Greg

sundug
04-01-2009, 08:27 AM
Hello all
I am wondering if giving specific measurements found in the plans out over the forum is fair to Brad and Kat. With enough of them and all the other info that we have provided, a person will not need to buy the plans... I am all for helping people but not when it will take food off Brad and Kat's table. I propose that we should refer to the specific page where the measurement can be found and assume the person asking the question has the plans and will be able to find it. If not, then they need to buy the plans. Just my zwei phennigs. OMO
==========================================
I hear you, but there are extenuating circumstances in my case. First, I have a slow dial up, and frequently get dropped off line, videos are impossible, and downloading large files can be a problem. Second, I`m not building a high roller, so why should I buy plans for one? I don`t see how it hurts anyone to have an open discussion for a design that is not being sold. Thanks, Doug

Odd Man Out
04-01-2009, 09:54 AM
==========================================
I hear you, but there are extenuating circumstances in my case. First, I have a slow dial up, and frequently get dropped off line, videos are impossible, and downloading large files can be a problem. Second, I`m not building a high roller, so why should I buy plans for one? I don`t see how it hurts anyone to have an open discussion for a design that is not being sold. Thanks, Doug

Doug
I agree your initial question was innocent but it illicited responses that drew specific information from the Hi Roller plans which, IMHO crossed the line from cool to not cool practises. My post was an effort to pull back the flow of info a bit so it does not hurt Brad and Kat.

My response to your original question would have been to direct you to other open source URL's that teach about head tube angles and such following the "Teach a man to fish..." principle.

Finally, I recommend that you do buy the High Roller plans for a number of reasons; It provides a wealth of building info that can be applied to any project (including the non high roller hi roller that you are currently building) that you contemplate -- saving you time and costly mistakes. It is dirt cheap for what you get and finally, you help to support Brad and Kat -- two very creative people who are responsible for this site. It's just good Kharma.

My post was not directed towards you. I warmly welcome you fellow zombie and look forward to picts of your build.

GregLWB
04-01-2009, 10:06 AM
==========================================
I hear you, but there are extenuating circumstances in my case. First, I have a slow dial up, and frequently get dropped off line, videos are impossible, and downloading large files can be a problem. Second, I`m not building a high roller, so why should I buy plans for one? I don`t see how it hurts anyone to have an open discussion for a design that is not being sold. Thanks, Doug

Please don't misunderstand as I have asked many questions too while I was getting ready for or trying to decide what to build. Also, I have asked alot of questions while building a bike, but there are ways around each of the issues you bring up and I will answer each of those.

First, even though as OddMan has stated you are not in technical terms building a High Roller, Brad does cover the option of a 26/20 version pretty well in the plans and at the price of his plans you pay half to a third of what most plans out there are going for. Selling these plans enables AZ to keep this site going and that is an important resource for all of us.

Second, if you have a slow connection or problems downloading, once you have the download code you can download it anywhere - Public Library, a friend with a better connection, etc., put it on a disk and then you can take it home and load it on your computer. Also, I had problems downloading things in the beginning and Kat was extremely helpful in helping me through them.

Third, we welcome you and are glad to help but I/we feel protective of this great resource and don't want to do anything to threaten its longevity.:)

Greg

comreich
04-01-2009, 12:39 PM
Well, in my defense, I didn't realize that Sundug hadn't purchased the plans. The only measurement provided from the plans was the main tube, everything else was provided based on a) my own High Roller, b) direct measurement of a Bacchetta in the store, and c) Bacchetta's own site. But I do recognize the point guys, and will try to refrain from too much disclosure in the future :)

Odd Man Out
04-01-2009, 05:16 PM
Well, in my defense, I didn't realize that Sundug hadn't purchased the plans. The only measurement provided from the plans was the main tube, everything else was provided based on a) my own High Roller, b) direct measurement of a Bacchetta in the store, and c) Bacchetta's own site. But I do recognize the point guys, and will try to refrain from too much disclosure in the future :)

No defense needed -- it was an innocent mistake. And by all means puleeez do not refrain from too much disclosure as long as it does not pertain to AZ plans. Your Bacchetta info was great! We are here to share and promote and inquire.

Shadowwalker65
04-02-2009, 09:38 AM
Brad and Kat do an awesome job in this forum for us AZ Nuts, we share a lot of information but it is only fair that we purchase the plans they are the cheapest and most detail as well as the most support and people with more knowledge than you will find any were. We had talk in the old forum about making this forum paid to help keep this open and to fund the creative crew of Brad a the Lady Kat:punk: as well to keep the great experts sharing loads of mods lets just keep building and sharing

Keeps the building and sharing hope my post is not too confusing

Gil

sundug
04-02-2009, 10:28 AM
Greg wrote-
"First, even though as OddMan has stated you are not in technical terms building a High Roller, Brad does cover the option of a 26/20 version pretty well in the plans and at the price of his plans you pay half to a third of what most plans out there are going for. Selling these plans enables AZ to keep this site going and that is an important resource for all of us.

Second, if you have a slow connection or problems downloading, once you have the download code you can download it anywhere - Public Library, a friend with a better connection, etc., put it on a disk and then you can take it home and load it on your computer. Also, I had problems downloading things in the beginning and Kat was extremely helpful in helping me through them.

Third, we welcome you and are glad to help but I/we feel protective of this great resource and don't want to do anything to threaten its longevity.:)"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Greg, that was most helpful, as I did not realize that the 26/20 was covered in the plans, and I did not know that upon payment I would be issued a code#. Does that mean that if the download is cut off I can try again without repaying? Any idea how large the file is?
If it makes anyone feel any better, I bought "The bicycle builders Handbook" sight unseen, and have no interest in building any of the bikes in it, altho I did find some useful info.
Also, I went to a bent fitting site elsewhere on the net, and looked at pics, measured myself, and decided on a main tube length and steering angle before anyone here tried to answer my questions. I have it welded up with #'s I came up with on my own. Doug

GregLWB
04-02-2009, 10:55 AM
Thanks, Greg, that was most helpful, as I did not realize that the 26/20 was covered in the plans, and I did not know that upon payment I would be issued a code#. Does that mean that if the download is cut off I can try again without repaying? Any idea how large the file is?
If it makes anyone feel any better, I bought "The bicycle builders Handbook" sight unseen, and have no interest in building any of the bikes in it, altho I did find some useful info.
Also, I went to a bent fitting site elsewhere on the net, and looked at pics, measured myself, and decided on a main tube length and steering angle before anyone here tried to answer my questions. I have it welded up with #'s I came up with on my own. Doug

Doug - I'm not sure how many times you can download but I do know that I had to do it twice on one of mine and as far as size (update 8.5 mb) I think it tells you on the step right before you have to pay. If you have any troubles Kat is a great resource and bailed me out more than once.:)

I bought the evil genius book because it had a couple of the trike designs I was thinking of building. It had a lot of useful info and helped me to better decide what to build. I still probably will build a couple from it but I ended up also buying a couple of other plans that I thought were more appropriate for my skill level first (HR and TM) and then I decided that I would also want to build a LR.

Welcome, I'm glad you're here and don't forget to post pics when you can. I for one look forward to watching your progress.:1eye:

Greg

comreich
04-02-2009, 07:11 PM
Dude, that makes two of us interested in the pics of your bike.

sundug
04-03-2009, 08:36 AM
This 26/20 SWB will be the third bent I`ve built, the first was a LWB, Tour Easy, for which I found free, detailed plans online. The second was a trike for my wife, where I incorporated ideas from several different online designs, and used what I had. After this, I plan to build a tadpole trike for me. I enjoy metal working, have taken welding classes, and have been welding for decades. Thanks for the input guys. Doug

sundug
04-21-2009, 10:27 AM
I took my 26/20 for a ride yesterday, still some minor tweaks needed, but definitely rideable. All I bought was the square tube, and a tire. Skateboard wheels for the chain guides. Now I have to build the muscles to use it. Doug

www.flickr.com/photos/sundug/sets/72157617038700343/

comreich
04-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Very nice. Verrrry yellow, but very nice :) Looks like the seat from recycledrecumbent.com?

sundug
04-22-2009, 08:21 AM
Yellow is the most visible color, maybe I won`t get run over. Seat idea came from tour easy, the LWB I first built. I modified the idea some, basically it's just bent 1/2" EMT with shade cloth. Comfy, but I did get a wet back riding in the wet, need a fender. Doug

John Lewis
04-22-2009, 09:15 AM
........but I did get a wet back riding in the wet, need a fender. Doug

Nice build Doug.

I make all my bent wet weather fenders from coreflute. Cheap and effective.

Cut a strip for the fender and a thinner strip for stays. Assemble and fit with cable ties. I paint mine and they are neat and tidy.

John Lewis

Radical Brad
04-22-2009, 01:19 PM
You have the best of both worlds now... in matching color.

Brad

comreich
04-22-2009, 02:58 PM
... I did get a wet back riding in the wet, need a fender.

Oh, I hear you on that. One of the reasons why I went with a solid seat for my high racer, and fenders on my LWB.

GregLWB
04-22-2009, 03:28 PM
Oh, I hear you on that. One of the reasons why I went with a solid seat for my high racer, and fenders on my LWB.

Ditto!:jester:

Greg

Danner
04-22-2009, 10:30 PM
By the way, some nice parlor scopes on your flikr page, besides the bikes! Do you have one with a miniature recumbent inside?