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Greenhorn
02-21-2009, 08:48 PM
Well....It doesn't look pretty, but I didn't burn anything or blow anything up. The pieces actually stick together (granted I haven't tried hammering the thing yet) and I have something resembling stacked pancakes in one area.

Biggest problem was the wire was going to fast and I couldn't see a "puddle"

So.....How did I do? Be ruthless......Do I suck at this?

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1325.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1330.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1332.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1344.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1335.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1341.jpg

MoeMac
02-21-2009, 08:55 PM
My first was a lot worst greenhorn.....

Did you check out the videos trikeman posted?? Cause it will help you BIG TIMES! It gave me more insight...

http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?p=19310#post19310

Keep at it and soon yo will be like a pro!

greenevegiebeast
02-21-2009, 08:56 PM
Not bad for a first atempt, btw nice shot of your shoes, and the chair.:jester:

trikeman
02-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Hey looks good for a first time effort. At least you got some metal down.

My best advice is to stop worrying about how fast the wire is coming out - it will take care of itself. When I first started, I had the same fear, and felt like the wire was getting ahead of me or something. It really made me tense. Just think of the wire speed knob as a current knob - nothing more, nothing less. Now, I don't even think about it except when I first set the wire speed. Just relax and concentrate on seeing. I guarantee you the wire will not come out and down to your feet and tangle you up lol.

You should forget about sticking metal together for now, and just concentrate on putting down some nice beads and seeing the puddle. Do not look at the bright light, but rather the puddle which is around it. Don't worry we all look at the light at first.

If you have not already done so, google some pictures of weld puddles so you know what you are looking for. I like the Wall Mountain videos for the great shots of the puddles, but I only have their stick welding ones. I found they really helped me to know what to look for and gave me much more confidence. They have some MIG and flux cores ones too.

http://www.weldingvideos.com/fcaw.html

Here is a view of what you are looking for, but the gun is kind of in the way. The puddle is that orange blob looking thing following the light. You can see it wetting out the sides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUVgNpGqd-Q&feature=related

When you forget about sticking two pieces of metal together and concentrate on the bead and puddle, you will soon begin to see that puddle. It does take practice. Try to see the puddle without worrying about anything else right now. Once you see it, try to move it around a bit. Do a burn through and watch the metal change colors etc.

Once you master seeing and controlling the puddle, the rest is downhill.

Keep practicing.

rickairmed
02-21-2009, 09:43 PM
Ok I'll be ruthless :D most of your pictures are waaaaaay out of focus :D:D. I would say other than that looks pretty good for the first try. I am pretty sure there should be a chart inside the door of your welder to help you set wire feed speed and amps depending on how thick the metal is your welding . Use the door chart :D. You should be pretty close with the chart then you can dial it in from there turn the feed speed down a little or up a little till your happy and burn away also SLOW DOWN :D. your travel speed is way to fast in most of those pics as Trikeman said try to look for the puddle just run beads on some flat stock till you get used to seeing the puddle then work towards sticking things together . There I was about as brutal as I could be and as I said for the first time welding your doing great :D. Ptractice Practice Practice .

Rick

trikeman
02-21-2009, 09:53 PM
Rick - The 125EZ is so simple, I don't even think it has a door gauge. It has four settings and they are printed on the knob on front. They each have a thickness range:

18-16 ga
16-12 ga
12-10 ga
10 ga - 3/16"

That is it.

As you said, he also needs to slow down. That was a big problem for me at first (worrying about all that wire spooling all over the garage floor :jester:)

Just set the the dial to the thickness and slow down and concentrate on that puddle, with no particular goal in mind to "weld" something. Many newbies don't spend enough time just seeing what the welder will do to the metal. We all want to get welding before we are one with the machine.

It also takes a second or two for a good puddle to form. If you immediately start to move before the puddle forms, you may never see one. So slow down is good advice.

rickairmed
02-22-2009, 12:29 PM
Greenhorn I hope we didnt razz you to bad yesterday you are doing well for your first welds you just need some more practice and some work on technique and you will be building that bike in no time .

Rick

rickairmed
02-22-2009, 12:35 PM
One other thing I will add is I dont know how bright your garage is but I have found as I get older having it bright where I am welding helps me to see better :D. I have 7 double tube 4' light fixtures and one 4 tube 4' fixture in my garage all of them have 6500K bulbs in them . I can blind you if you come in from the dark outside :D. I have also used a halogen work light pointed at my work before I got all the lights up in the garage by the way my garage is 450 square feet or about 2 1/2 cars.

Rick

Greenhorn
02-22-2009, 12:37 PM
Greenhorn I hope we didnt razz you to bad yesterday you are doing well for your first welds you just need some more practice and some work on technique and you will be building that bike in no time .

Rick

Not at all. I know I need a lot of work on my technique. Yesterday, I set up for probably 1 hour and actually welded for maybe 2 minutes. My first pass was messy, as I jumped a little when I first pulled the trigger. The frustrating thing is that I know what I am suppossed to do,but I can';t get my hands to do it! More practice I guess. I'm gonna try and get some more practice in today. Part of the problem is that all I have to practice on is 1/8 steel bar, and my wire/machine is set for 1/16.

Any feedback is welcome. I'd rather have someoen tell me I suck so I can improve then blow unshine up my arse and wind up with faulty welds on my bike!

I'll try and squeeze in some more practice today between running errands for the Mrs. (Still in the doghouse over buying all the equipment. :) )

rickairmed
02-22-2009, 12:46 PM
Well if all you have is 1/8" flatbar set the welder for 1/8" and just practice running beads on the flatbar dont worry so much about trying to weld 2 bars together yet just work on getting straight beads and seeing the puddle . I will also add if you are using flux core wire then pull the cup off the end of your mig gun its main purpose is to keep shielding gas on the bead so it isnt needed with fluxcore wire and that will help you see your weld betterwith it out of the way .

Rick

Greenhorn
02-22-2009, 12:52 PM
My gun doesn't have the bigger "mig" nozzle; it has a smaller nozzle that goes over the contact tip and seats on the front end of the gun. The contact tip sticks out about 1/2 inch.

rickairmed
02-22-2009, 12:58 PM
Ok thats good that will help you see what your actually doing .


Rick

rickairmed
02-22-2009, 06:44 PM
Greenhorn one other little tip do you have a barstool in your garage you can sit on at your new welding table it will allow you to sit down and get comfortable . That will help you concentrate on welding and not worry about being comfy while trying to do it .:D

Rick

Greenhorn
02-24-2009, 12:44 AM
Take 2. I decided to just practice laying beads this time.

Those 2 videos posted by Trikeman really helped me understand what to do and not to do. However, I am not sure I actually improved here. On the plus side, I saw the puddle this time and could see it lapping. I upped the seeting to 10-12 guage and that seemed to help the speed a little. I am still having problems keeping a straight line. I tried using the half-moon technique in one of the beads here.

Is this better, worse, ugly?


http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1361.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1356.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1368.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1369.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1367.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1371.jpg

Greenhorn
02-24-2009, 12:52 AM
Oh....and I got a nice faceful of gas this time around.

I'm still coughing.......:(

MoeMac
02-24-2009, 07:13 AM
Morning Greenhorn....

I see much better improvemen here .... Good job! specially the last ones...

The puddles are getting better abd some underside got heat through...

You are getting it! Now like you said work on the straight line... :D

trikeman
02-24-2009, 08:14 AM
Nice improvement Greenhorn. Since I already commented on the Hobart forum (smyrna5), I will just ditto what MoeMac already said, and he is right about the opposite side showing good penetration from the heat affected zone there.

I know I have recommended this before, but one thing you might want to consider is the Wall Mountain video on fluxcore welding ($24.95 at Northern Tool). I have only bought their Arc Welding 1&2, but they are excellent and really show the puddle in action. As I did in the link below, I highly recommend them. I suspect the flux core and MIG ones are as good as the stick. A good birthday or wish list item:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?p=323156#post323156

rickairmed
02-24-2009, 09:56 AM
Greenhorn much better your beads are not sporadic now like the first ones. One thing I might recomend to help you with a straight line would be to pick up some welders chaulk from farm and fleet and draw lines on your practice coupons that you should be able to follow with your bead. I would also recomend at the moment not trying fancy techniques :D such as half moons just try going in a straight line. Most of the welds you will be doing on the bikes will be o n thin metal which wont require half moons just straight line beads after you tack parts together . I see improvement from your first welds and if you look back at your first welds you should also see where the beads are complete beads now as where your first beads looked more like a bump here and a bump there from travelng to fast :D.

Rick

Greenhorn
02-24-2009, 10:25 AM
yeah. My first time everything had cooled down by the time I took my helmet off. This time, the beads were a nice glowing red/orange for a few seconds after I finished.

Thanks for the tip on the welder's chalk. I was unaware there was such a thing.

Its good to know I am on the right track. I'll keep practicing. Maybe in a few weeks I can actually start my build (although I plan to start on the simple stuff like end caps)

macka
02-24-2009, 11:31 AM
a little trick GH, listen for the sound of bacon sizzling when you weld. If you are too cold it will be a pop pop pop almost sizzle, and if you are too hot, you will get a big puddle thats very visible and the right sizzle, but you'll burn through.

scootdaddy
02-24-2009, 08:47 PM
they are looking good
i have only used flux core one time and it was a wimpy machine
so i wasn't impressed with it

i have a HF dual mig 151 on 220v with solid wier and C25 gas
i love it i haven't touched my stick welder in two & half yrs
except to weld some cast iron afew weeks ago


i don't know if you are pulling or pushing your puddle
i find that i get abetter weld if i push it
unless going downhill then i pull

Greenhorn
02-24-2009, 09:26 PM
.........I am kinda of wishing i would have saved up for a mig. My lungs are still killing me after inhaling flux gas last night and cleaning up all the slag is a pain.

trikeman
02-24-2009, 09:45 PM
No question that slag sucks when using a stick welder, but I have never had any trouble cleaning it off with a few simple strokes of a hand powered wire brush when using flux core wire. . As for the fumes, have you tried a fan blowing the smoke away from the weld. Hopefully you are not trying to use flux core indoors.

scootdaddy
02-24-2009, 09:48 PM
No question that slag sucks. As for the fumes, have you tried a fan blowing the smoke away from the weld.

yes a fan would work good

trikeman
02-24-2009, 09:52 PM
I have also never had any trouble cleaning all those little BBs of molten steel (splatter) that you get with fluxcore. I just hit em once with a putty knife and they fall off.

scootdaddy
02-24-2009, 10:06 PM
I have also never had any trouble cleaning all those little BBs of molten steel (splatter) that you get with fluxcore. I just hit em once with a putty knife and they fall off.

another thing that would work to prevent the splatter woul be use
weld-desplat a.k.a. SOAPY WATER we usesd this when i was at a trailer mfg a few years ago and in the navy alot of years ago

trikeman
02-24-2009, 10:14 PM
Greenhorn - you may be getting some slag inclusions because your travel speed is not yet consistent. If you stop and start, make sure you brush off the old weld first to keep slag inclusions to a minimum. Once you get better at it no slag should be trapped and it should just fall off with the stroke of a brush. Don't get discouraged. You have a good welder, but it is going to take practice to learn how to use it like a pro.

rickairmed
02-24-2009, 10:15 PM
I have also never had any trouble cleaning all those little BBs of molten steel (splatter) that you get with fluxcore. I just hit em once with a putty knife and they fall off.


I will add a new tip :D a good cheap anti spatter spray which you can apply where you dont want spatter to stick is hiding in SWMBO's kitchen it says Pam on the can she thinks its a non stick cooking spray :D.


Rick

scootdaddy
02-24-2009, 10:19 PM
I will add a new tip :D a good cheap anti spatter spray which you can apply where you dont want spatter to stick is hiding in SWMBO's kitchen it says Pam on the can she thinks its a non stick cooking spray :D.


Rick

huh! i never thought about that:jester:

Greenhorn
02-24-2009, 11:10 PM
Once again....thanks for the advice guys.

Building this bike is certainly an adventure into the unknown and would not even have been attempted without the people here.

(Another interesting feature of the internet)


_______________
(--oh.... and No, I am not trying to use my machine in a closed room. I am using it in SWMBO's garage with the main door open, as close to the door as I can get. Last night I got a gust of wind that blew the arc cloud into the garage and right up under my hood right when I was inhaling, thats all. I was not wearing my disposable ventilator mask because it was fogging up my glasses----its cold up here on the frozen tundra)

Greenhorn
02-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Well..either 1) 3rd time is the charm; 2) I really need my reading glasses or 3) the stubborn polack in me finally came to some good.


Here is what I did last night. I think (hope) it is a big improvement over the last 2 attempts. Things I did different: 1) I wore my reading glasses and got my helmet in close; 2) i used my left hand to hold onto the bottom of the gun and steady it--before I had my left hand further up front; 3) instead of trying to do one big long pull, I used a "sweeping" back and forth motion to slowly drag the puddle forward but then jump back to the puddle.

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1381.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1384.jpg

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww33/WI_Greenhorn/IMG_1385.jpg

trikeman
02-28-2009, 10:11 AM
That is looking pretty good. I think the reading glasses probably helped. I know a lot of older guys on the welding forum recommend "cheaters" which are basically reading glass lenses in their helmets. The cheaters don't work for me (at least not the over-the-counter ones) since I have weird eyes that don't work at all with reading lenses. What does help me is getting up close and personal to the work, and wearing my progressive bi-focals when I weld. Two hands are good too. No way I am steady enough with one hand to weld worth a crap.

Now, you are starting to talk about dragging the puddle and moving it around. That means you have begun to conquer the hardest part of welding - seeing and controlling the puddle. Congratulations.

Keep up the good work.

rickairmed
02-28-2009, 11:18 AM
Greenhorn thats looking real good . I guess I could have ,mentioned the cheaters :D. I wear reading glasses as well when welding nowadays :D. I would say spend some time this weekend practicing sticking things together and your ready to start building a bike :D.


Rick

macka
02-28-2009, 11:42 AM
A pretty top makes for easier cleanup, but the penetration is the most important part. Get solid welds before you work on looking good which comes with practice anyways. Try making a square out of coupons. Weld 2 runs on the inside and 2 on the outside. Use smaller cuts about 2 inches long. You won't be able to do long runs, you will learn how to tack and set up for a weld.

Greenhorn
02-28-2009, 08:09 PM
Spent more quality time with the welder today. Feel pretty good about doing 1/8 pieces. I cant find any local palce with 1/16 so all i have is my parts for my build. I bought everything extra long, so i think tommorow i'll cut a half a foot off the 6 foot boom and run some beads to get used to the 1/16.


So, the only question now is:

Do I stay on Degohba with Yoda; or do I fly to Cloud City to confront Vader?

I feel like I know enough to be dangerous....

rickairmed
02-28-2009, 08:27 PM
Greenhorn after you have your 6" piece cut off cut it into smaller pieces and start practicing putting them back together :D. Then cut them back apart going across your welds so you can see how your penetration goes.

Rick

macka
03-01-2009, 11:25 AM
Spent more quality time with the welder today. Feel pretty good about doing 1/8 pieces. I cant find any local palce with 1/16 so all i have is my parts for my build. I bought everything extra long, so i think tommorow i'll cut a half a foot off the 6 foot boom and run some beads to get used to the 1/16.


So, the only question now is:

Do I stay on Degohba with Yoda; or do I fly to Cloud City to confront Vader?

I feel like I know enough to be dangerous....

stay on degohba and do what Rick says cut your tube into little pieces and weld them together. Use a hacksaw, or a bandsaw if you can, also if you have a shop teacher friend, raid the scrap bin for bits and pieces to join.

trikeman
03-01-2009, 11:37 AM
Or, since you are mostly going to be welding 16 ga tubing when you build AZ bikes, you might want to try to find some tubing. I found a nice old dress rack at the dump, that gave me some practice and later became part of my DW. The thrift stores often have cheap exercise equipment that has lots of 14-16 ga tube for practicing on. If you have a good steel supplier near by, you will find a 10' x 1 1/4" x 16 ga piece of tubing (or even flat stock) will furnish you with hours and hours worth of good practice steel.

Conduit (EMT) from Home Depot is also a good practice medium, but its much harder to weld, since it is both galvanized and round. The flap wheel will make short order of the galvanizing.

Greenhorn
03-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Learned 2 things last night: 1) 1/16 tubing is MUCH harder to weld than 1/8; and 2) I don't know how to use an angle grinder.

1. I cut off a 6 inch section of my main beam tubing to run some beads. Trouble was, when I was done with a bead and cleaned it--the weld was flush with the rest of the surfance. Upon later inspection, I found a very nice looking bead------on the inside of the tube! I tried increasing my speed to prevent the sag and then had trouble keeping a solid line. The margin of error on the 1/16 bis much less than on the 1/8 I was practicing on before. I guess I need more practice before moving onto the bike.


2. Up to this point, I had been using a thicker dual purpose grinding/cutting wheel. I tried using a thinner dedicated "metal cutting" wheel to chop off part of the beam. (Unlike the grinding wheels this wheel is completely flat--i.e., it has no indentation when it attaches to the spindle) Before anyone asks, the wheel is meant for use with 4 1/2 grinders (what I have) and the RPM tolerance is within the range of the tool. About 30 seconds into using it, the wheel started oscillating and hitting the guard. I promtly shut off the tool and examined the wheel. the inner metal ring on the wheel had "eaten" through the inside of the wheel and was now sitting on the spindle between the two locknuts. The wheel had a large hole in the middle. I put on another wheel of the same kind and noticed that even when I have the nut tightened as far as it will go, these thinner wheels "wobble"---there is not a tight fit between the inner and outer lock nuts. I checked the grinder manual (it is a orange HF model) and it says nothing about disk thickness. The disk was the appropriate spindle size. I tried it with another disk and the same thing happened. What am I missing?

rickairmed
03-03-2009, 11:32 AM
Greenhorn on the cut off wheel mounting ( flip the outer locknut over ) when using them . Both the locknuts have one side that has a little kickout right before the spindle this helps center the grinding wheels but with the cut off wheels you dont need the kick out on both sides so flipping the outer locknut should solve this problem at least it does on my Makita. I will add if you want to leave the weld bead above the steel just hit it with a wire brush and your done no need to grind the welds unless you want the smooth look . I would also recomend grabbing some flap disks at home depot or lowes and giving them a try . I would also say it sounds like your ready to start building a bike the beads on the inside of the tube is a good thing that means you got good penatration :D as long as your not blowing holes through the steel ( which you will do at some point ) go for it pick your build and get started :D. When you do blow a hole through the steel its not a big problem it just gives you something new to work through ( filling the hole back in ) .

Rick

trikeman
03-03-2009, 11:35 AM
Yeah - we have kind of been saving that part about 16 ga being harder to weld than 1/8" until you got a bit of confidence with the 1/8 [g]. When you get to 16 ga you are really going to have to watch that puddle and notice the color changes as it it is getting close to burn through. You cannot linger too long in one spot. I found that doing some intentional burn throughs on thin material and then practicing patching the holes by going around the perimeter in ever decreasing circles gave me lots of insight about colors, sounds, and feel for burning through vs making a good weld. You also can't usually make more than about 1/2" of weld on 16ga before you have to stop and let it cool a bit.

As far as grinding wheels go - I don't use them for grinding welds. They are just too aggressive. I use only flap discs to knock down welds. Here is what they look like:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200309205_200309205

Keep practicing on that 16 ga and you will get the hang of it.


As an added note - Rick is right about that bead on the inside. It just means you got good penetration. If you did it without blowing a hole it is a good thing.

GregLWB
03-03-2009, 12:07 PM
Learned 2 things last night: 1) 1/16 tubing is MUCH harder to weld than 1/8; and 2) I don't know how to use an angle grinder.

2. Up to this point, I had been using a thicker dual purpose grinding/cutting wheel. I tried using a thinner dedicated "metal cutting" wheel to chop off part of the beam. (Unlike the grinding wheels this wheel is completely flat--i.e., it has no indentation when it attaches to the spindle) Before anyone asks, the wheel is meant for use with 4 1/2 grinders (what I have) and the RPM tolerance is within the range of the tool. About 30 seconds into using it, the wheel started oscillating and hitting the guard. I promtly shut off the tool and examined the wheel. the inner metal ring on the wheel had "eaten" through the inside of the wheel and was now sitting on the spindle between the two locknuts. The wheel had a large hole in the middle. I put on another wheel of the same kind and noticed that even when I have the nut tightened as far as it will go, these thinner wheels "wobble"---there is not a tight fit between the inner and outer lock nuts. I checked the grinder manual (it is a orange HF model) and it says nothing about disk thickness. The disk was the appropriate spindle size. I tried it with another disk and the same thing happened. What am I missing?

Greenhorn - I have that same grinder and unlike Rick's Makita if you look at the shiny sleeve that is on the spindle after you take the lock nut and the disk off, that sleeve needs to be turned over for cut-off disks. You will see that if you turn it over it has a much shorter raised section and you will be able to get your disk tight.

Greg

Greenhorn
03-03-2009, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the tip. The manual for that tool is less than ideal.

rickairmed
03-03-2009, 08:12 PM
LOL Greenhorn if you find a tool at horrible Fleight with a decent manual I will be quite impressed and I have alooooooooot of their tools :D.

Rick